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#41 PatrickDougherty

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:42 PM

True or not, this just makes me want to beat these bastards even more.

 

I read recently that Belichick's record as a HC before Tom Brady took a snap was 41-56.

 

So it's not like he's some friggin' genius who fell out of the sky. He had a pretty crappy track record before he lucked into one of the greatest QB's in the history of the NFL. Belichick's legacy as a HC begins and ends with Brady. If anything, the 11-5 season the Pats had with Brady out is probably the best accomplishment.

 

I have no doubts they were cheating. I think there was probably some level of cover up. I still don't believe the NFL didn't see the Rice tape before handing out the 2 game suspension. 

 

I also believe every team in the NFL does things at times to gain an edge.

 

That said, whatever they may be doing hasn't had much of an effect on us -- we're 2-1 in the postseason there and should be 3-0.

 

Hopefully we make it 3-1 Saturday.

So, what, he can't learn and evolve into a good coach? Having Brady definitely helps, but attributing all of the Patriots' success to Brady is overlooking the fact that not even the best coach could keep a team consistently relevant without capable talent. Sure, Belichick has some of the best pieces to work with, but he still has to do something with them. Plus, he's considered a defensive guy anyway, as well as handling GM duties, and he's one of few coaches that I see as something other than Organizer of Multiple Smart People.


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#42 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:42 PM

But Brady really wasn't that amazing when the Patriots were actually winning their Super Bowls.  His first 6 years, he had QB ratings between 85 and 93.  That's really good, but basically just a tad better (really, a tad more consistent) than what Flacco's done to this point in his career.  He's blown up since, been above 96 all but one of the past seven years (87 last year).  Averaged 88 his first 6 years, 102 his past 7. 

 

They've been more successful in the regular season since Brady became dominant, but haven't gotten any rings since that point after getting 3 in the early going.

 

Something to be said for the randomness of the playoffs.  It's not as much of a crap shoot as MLB, but it's still pretty random.  They could easily have 2 rings since 2007.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#43 Mackus

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:42 PM

Your former star TE MURDERED TWO PEOPLE!

 

Doesn't pointing out that another team's star player may have murdered some people seem a bit odd coming from a Ravens fan?  Not trying to hear Ed Garland's defense again, but it sounds just a bit peculiar.



#44 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM

Doesn't pointing out that another team's star player may have murdered some people seem a bit odd coming from a Ravens fan?  Not trying to hear Ed Garland's defense again, but it sounds just a bit peculiar.

 

I'm not saying the Ravens have clean hands, but I don't walk around saying the Pats should lose because of "karma" due to Aaron Hernandez.  It's hypocritical.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#45 DJ MC

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM

True or not, this just makes me want to beat these bastards even more.

 

I read recently that Belichick's record as a HC before Tom Brady took a snap was 41-56.

 

So it's not like he's some friggin' genius who fell out of the sky. He had a pretty crappy track record before he lucked into one of the greatest QB's in the history of the NFL. Belichick's legacy as a HC begins and ends with Brady. If anything, the 11-5 season the Pats had with Brady out is probably the best accomplishment.

 

Except that Brady and the offense weren't carrying the team early on. It was the defense that carried the team in 2001-03. Brady was good, but not at the level we think of him now. He had a poor record with the Browns, but nobody would have had a good record with that franchise at that point; the fact that he took essentially the same team that would finish 4-12 in a completely different city two years later to the playoffs is a miracle. 

 

Plus, since he was essentially making the personnel decisions, he deserves credit for the drafting and transactions that kept reloading the team over that period. His success is from Brady as much as Lombardi's was from Starr or Noll's from Bradshaw or Walsh's from Montana.


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#46 Mackus

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM

Something to be said for the randomness of the playoffs.  It's not as much of a crap shoot as MLB, but it's still pretty random.  They could easily have 2 rings since 2007.

 

Certainly.  The timing of the rings very easily could have been reversed, none when Brady was good then many when he became elite.  Or summed up and they have a Montana/49ers style dominance going on.  Or more or less fizzled out and Brady is Peyton with just one or two SB appearances.

 

I think winning lots of rings is mostly about giving yourself lots of chances, and then getting some good fortune (much of it self-made) once you are there.



#47 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM

Doesn't pointing out that another team's star player may have murdered some people seem a bit odd coming from a Ravens fan?  Not trying to hear Ed Garland's defense again, but it sounds just a bit peculiar.

 

I think it's more the soap box that many writers have gotten on pointing at the Ravens that makes people want to say this.

 

The narrative the Ravens are thugs is tired in Baltimore but still well received nationally.



#48 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:46 PM

I think it's more the soap box that many writers have gotten on pointing at the Ravens that makes people want to say this.

 

The narrative the Ravens are thugs is tired in Baltimore but still well received nationally.

 

This is what happens when you're a gigantic biased homer with millions of twitter followers.  Your "narrative" can travel quite far.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#49 DJ MC

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:47 PM

I'm not saying the Ravens have clean hands, but I don't walk around saying the Pats should lose because of "karma" due to Aaron Hernandez.  It's hypocritical.

 

He's scared. This is what he does when he's scared. He openly goes around calling Bernard Pollard a serial killer because the Patriots have had the bad luck of being on the receiving end of some injuries caused by his hits.

 

Let him talk. He's just going to be Scott Tennerman, while we all can take turns as Cartman.


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#50 DJ MC

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:48 PM

This is what happens when you're a gigantic biased homer with millions of twitter followers.  Your "narrative" can travel quite far.

 

It's not his narrative, though, just because he helps perpetuate it.


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#51 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:51 PM

It's not his narrative, though, just because he helps perpetuate it.

 

Yeah...but this is getting away from the point. For a guy with that big of a platform to be saying stuff like that about his team who had a double murderer that he cheered for, seems way hypocritical.

 

In fact, I'd imagine any NFL team has this problem and it's kind of hypocritical of any NFL fan base to act like their team doesn't have some form of legal issues behind them.



#52 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:52 PM

Also, I think there might be something to Pees knowing what the Pats do when/how they cheat and doing stuff to combat it.

 

I could even see him being able to direct the Ravens to do things to intentionally mislead the Pats into thinking they are stealing something that they aren't.

 

IMO, that's Pees biggest asset here. That and he knows the mind Belicheck so well.



#53 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:52 PM

To be fair, a huge part of his beef is the way the FO handled Rice, i.e. not cutting him until the video "surfaced."  He believes the Ravens saw the video and only released him once it was made public.

 

But still, your TE killed two people, dude.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#54 PatrickDougherty

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:53 PM

Something to be said for the randomness of the playoffs.  It's not as much of a crap shoot as MLB, but it's still pretty random.  They could easily have 2 rings since 2007.

FiveThirtyEight just wrote a bit about this. With 12 teams in the playoffs, the "best team in the league" according to their own Elo ratings system wins the Super Bowl just 24.9% of the time, less than any other playoff format featuring 14 teams or fewer:

nfl_expansion.png?w=610&h=250

 

Accompanying article


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#55 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:54 PM

The lack of a series obviously adds to the randomness.  You have one bad night and you're done.  Similar to the NCAA Tournament.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

@bopper33


#56 Mackus

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:55 PM

Yeah...but this is getting away from the point. For a guy with that big of a platform to be saying stuff like that about his team who had a double murderer that he cheered for, seems way hypocritical.

 

In fact, I'd imagine any NFL team has this problem and it's kind of hypocritical of any NFL fan base to act like their team doesn't have some form of legal issues behind them.

 

I think the point is that the Ravens tried to cover up or diminish Ray's actions, chose not to take a stand until they had to, and then perhaps even lied to cover up what they knew the whole time is pretty shitty (depending on how much or how firmly anyone believes some of those things).  I don't think anyone is making a claim that the Patriots knew anything, or even firmly suspected anything, like what Hernandez got charged with was something that could happen, and they severed ties as soon as they could (which, barring anything else that's speculated, the Ravens did not with Ray even though they knew what happened in the elevator even if they hadn't seen the video).

 

The Ravens FO has much more dirt (or at least justifiable suspicion of dirt) on them from the Rice scandal than the Patriots FO does from the Hernandez scandal, IMO, even though the Hernandez crime was much worse.


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#57 DJ MC

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:59 PM

Yeah...but this is getting away from the point. For a guy with that big of a platform to be saying stuff like that about his team who had a double murderer that he cheered for, seems way hypocritical.

 

In fact, I'd imagine any NFL team has this problem and it's kind of hypocritical of any NFL fan base to act like their team doesn't have some form of legal issues behind them.

 

I think his argument would be that the Patriots put Hernandez out on his ass (relatively) quickly while the Ravens stood 100% behind Ray Lewis.

 

Of course, that would ignore essentially all of the circumstances of the cases. But Simmons is also not the only NFL fan (Patriots or otherwise) who would say that.


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#58 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:00 PM

I thought there was a lot of chatter in the draft and around the Pats locker room that Hernandez was into shady shit. And to say the Ravens wouldn't have cut Rice if he was accused of murder immediately seems silly. Too much apples to oranges in that issue to compare directly, IMO.

 

I think it's beneficial to the narrative to think he wasn't but the guy was considered to be a thugh and was 1st/2nd round talent that fell to the 4th round because of character issues, no?

 

Where with Rice you have a guy who was actually legitimately helping his community and was thought to be a stand up guy. Maybe the Ravens made a mistake giving him loyalty due to that, but I think that had something to do with it too.



#59 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:02 PM

It's likely Kraft and/or Belichick will have to testify so it will be interesting to see how much they knew about Hernandez's personal life.

 

All that aside, when you root for a team who employed a player who murdered two people you probably shouldn't walk around passing judgment on any other franchise.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#60 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:03 PM

I think his argument would be that the Patriots put Hernandez out on his ass (relatively) quickly while the Ravens stood 100% behind Ray Lewis.

 

Of course, that would ignore essentially all of the circumstances of the cases. But Simmons is also not the only NFL fan (Patriots or otherwise) who would say that.

 

No doubt, again anyone can craft the argument to make any team look bad in any circumstance.

 

I'm sure you could back and show how Hernandez is/was a thug. Blount was arrested earlier this year, left the field during a game and they still brought him back. Exactly the kind of guy who shouldn't have a job in the NFL.

 

No matter how much fans or Goodell want to pretend like people care about this stuff, talent and winning remain king in the NFL. And that's not anywhere near changing.






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