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Conference Realignment


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#281 Oriole85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:28 PM

Yes, football drove those moves, I'm not denying that. But frankly, I think the Big Ten is past making moves just for a specific sport. (Look at SEC, the only way they're going to expand now is to improve basketball, market presence, or academics.) They are all about making money. How do they do that? Expand the footprint of the conference. That means adding new colleges from new markets in order to sell their Big Ten Network.

As for academic prestige, yes, they actually were both added for that as well. Both Nebraska and Penn St. are AAU schools, as is every other Big Ten program. (Now Nebraska lost theirs last year, but that's a different story.)

If you don't think the Big Ten is looking to add schools like Maryland or Georgia Tech, who do you think they are going to add?

Nebraska downgraded the academic prestige of the Big 10, not upgraded it. Missouri or Notre Dame (not that that was happening) would've been a better addition for that! They were I believe the lowest ranked academically of any school in the Big 10, if not close to it.
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#282 Oriole85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:37 PM

ESPN: Mike Aresco discusses Notre Dame

http://espn.go.com/c...tre-dame-buyout
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#283 Chris B

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

Nebraska downgraded the academic prestige of the Big 10, not upgraded it. Missouri or Notre Dame (not that that was happening) would've been a better addition for that! They were I believe the lowest ranked academically of any school in the Big 10, if not close to it.


You're nitpicking and missing the main point. The Big Ten, when they want to expand again, will look east. And the university they will be looking at will be Maryland. Since you clearly disagree with that, I ask again, who will they look to add?

#284 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

Nebraska downgraded the academic prestige of the Big 10, not upgraded it. Missouri or Notre Dame (not that that was happening) would've been a better addition for that! They were I believe the lowest ranked academically of any school in the Big 10, if not close to it.


Nebraska is currently the lowest ranked B1G school academically (tied for 101st), if you put stock in the U.S. News & World Report rankings, which many do. But Missouri is by no means that far ahead (tied for 97th). And due to the tie, there are no 98-100 in the rankings. About the only upgrade they'd get from Missouri is that they could technically make the claim that all of their schools are in the Top 100 (which of course is subject to change on an annual basis). As for AAU membership, as Chris B said, Nebraska was a member when invited to the B1G, but were dropped. And the reason for that had nothing to do with any changes at the university, but rather the standards for membership....it had something to do with omitting the agricultural research programs at Neb.

#285 Oriole85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

You're nitpicking and missing the main point. The Big Ten, when they want to expand again, will look east. And the university they will be looking at will be Maryland. Since you clearly disagree with that, I ask again, who will they look to add?

I saw your AAU argument, I'm just talking about the general academic rankings.

I don't see it happening, but it's possible. Rutgers/Pitt would be two schools that come to mind, more likely than MD, where they could have football success (Yes I know football isn't good this year). I believe Rutgers could expand their football stadium. I would've said Notre Dame was more likely until the other day than MD. Same idea with Mizzou before they moved to the SEC.
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#286 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

Ugh, can you imagine Maryland having to play Big 10 basketball? 42-38 finals? Perish the thought!

Stay in the ACC, please.
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#287 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

Ugh, can you imagine Maryland having to play Big 10 basketball? 42-38 finals? Perish the thought!

Stay in the ACC, please.


I got $50 million that says they definitely will stay.

#288 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

I saw your AAU argument, I'm just talking about the general academic rankings.

I don't see it happening, but it's possible. Rutgers/Pitt would be two schools that come to mind, more likely than MD, where they could have football success (Yes I know football isn't good this year). I believe Rutgers could expand their football stadium. I would've said Notre Dame was more likely until the other day than MD. Same idea with Mizzou before they moved to the SEC.


Pitt makes little sense, as they already have statewide coverage in PA with Penn State, and thus the BTN is already carried on Pittsburgh-area cable providers at in-market rates. Rutgers makes sense....new territory, large population, and gets them a toe into the NYC market. After that, I don't see any options more attractive than MD. Although that just changed with the new exit fee....which takes me back to the original point of why UM was not happy about the ND thing went down, since I see no other reason why they would object.

#289 Oriole85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:23 PM

Pitt makes little sense, as they already have statewide coverage in PA with Penn State, and thus the BTN is already carried on Pittsburgh-area cable providers at in-market rates. Rutgers makes sense....new territory, large population, and gets them a toe into the NYC market. After that, I don't see any options more attractive than MD. Although that just changed with the new exit fee....which takes me back to the original point of why UM was not happy about the ND thing went down, since I see no other reason why they would object.

I felt like since it was asked, I had to give a response. My main point is I don't see Maryland moving to the Big 10 and I stand by that. I think those schools might have more upside for football and could possibly support it better than MD could. I think Rutgers probably makes more sense than Pitt, but still maintain that makes more sense than MD. After that MD probably makes the most sense of an east-coast based school. I would see more games being moved off-campus -- Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Penn State(if they are ever relevant again). They could pull off some Northwestern-like upsets 8-)
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#290 Chris B

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:28 PM

Schools that make the most sense for the Big Ten:
1. Maryland
2. Rutgers
gap
3. UNC
4. Duke
gap
5. Pitt

#291 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:32 PM

Schools that make the most sense for the Big Ten:
1. Maryland
2. Rutgers
gap
3. UNC/Duke (may as well look at them as a package, because you'll never get one without the other)
4. Ga Tech (#9 TV market in the country)
gap
5. Pitt


Fixed.

#292 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:39 PM

I felt like since it was asked, I had to give a response. My main point is I don't see Maryland moving to the Big 10 and I stand by that. I think those schools might have more upside for football and could possibly support it better than MD could. I think Rutgers probably makes more sense than Pitt, but still maintain that makes more sense than MD. After that MD probably makes the most sense of an east-coast based school. I would see more games being moved off-campus -- Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Penn State(if they are ever relevant again). They could pull off some Northwestern-like upsets 8-)


While Nebraska's football program (and despite small market size, they have a large national following) is the primary reason they were invited, I don't think that means UM's lack of a decent football program hurts them as much as you think. Imagine selling this point to B1G ADs: "We're adding a school here that expands our footprint, increases revenues, gets you face time in an area that produces some decent recruits (football and basketball).....AND, their football program is pretty mediocre. So that extra money isn't going to come at the expense of you losing more conference games."

Urban Meyer, Brady Hoke, Bret Bielema, et al just gave that a B1G thumbs up!

#293 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:40 PM

Fixed.


I'd agree with that list, and that order... but as you said; with that $50M exit fee from the ACC; all of those teams really are non-starters.

The really interesting thing with this ACC/ND move, is that could be the move that keeps things stable for the other BCS conferences.

#294 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:48 PM

The really interesting thing with this ACC/ND move, is that could be the move that keeps things stable for the other BCS conferences.


Agreed. ND (and specifically ND football) is really the only big domino left out there that could completely alter the landscape. And since they are also committed to the ACC to the tune of the $50 million exit fee (or so I read somewhere), they aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I think the only thing that could still happen is that the Big XII expands back to 12 at some point. And with FSU & Clemson pretty much out of the question, that leaves Louisville and someone else (BYU?) as their best options....and neither of those would generate a huge shift.

#295 Oriole85

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

While Nebraska's football program (and despite small market size, they have a large national following) is the primary reason they were invited, I don't think that means UM's lack of a decent football program hurts them as much as you think. Imagine selling this point to B1G ADs: "We're adding a school here that expands our footprint, increases revenues, gets you face time in an area that produces some decent recruits (football and basketball).....AND, their football program is pretty mediocre. So that extra money isn't going to come at the expense of you losing more conference games."

Urban Meyer, Brady Hoke, Bret Bielema, et al just gave that a B1G thumbs up!

I agree Nebraska fits the Big 10 profile better.

If MD is at the bottom of the football standings every year, I don't think the sell is there. Playing in the DC/Baltimore market once every 2-4 years isn't as appealing for recruits as you think it is, I guess moreso for basketball. You would need another DMV school for recruits to ensure that they played in this market every year or so. And people aren't going to pay attention from around here unless they are relevant, after the initial honeymoon period. Being a Colorado alum, there was definitely some more buzz despite a down year last year(this year is actually looking worse) in playing Oregon&USC at home. You would see the same thing I believe at MD with Michigan, Ohio State, etc (again more likely if these games are at Byrd). But in year 5, no one will care if they still suck.
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#296 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

I agree Nebraska fits the Big 10 profile better.

If MD is at the bottom of the football standings every year, I don't think the sell is there. Playing in the DC/Baltimore market once every 2-4 years isn't as appealing for recruits as you think it is, I guess moreso for basketball. You would need another DMV school for recruits to ensure that they played in this market every year or so. And people aren't going to pay attention from around here unless they are relevant, after the initial honeymoon period. Being a Colorado alum, there was definitely some more buzz despite a down year last year(this year is actually looking worse) in playing Oregon&USC at home. You would see the same thing I believe at MD with Michigan, Ohio State, etc (again more likely if these games are at Byrd). But in year 5, no one will care if they still suck.


I think you're overlooking the primary appeal UM has for the B1G ($$$) and where it comes from. The B1G and Pac-12 are similar in that both now have conference-owned networks (although the B1G only owns about half of theirs). Whether the UM/B1G novelty is there 5 years later or not, and whether the Terps are any good on the field or not, the BTN still collects subscriber fees via the millions of pay-TV customers in the DC/Balt area. Just like Colorado for the Pac-12 Network. Strong, steady revenues = conference stability.

As for recruits, until now, Penn State seems to have done quite well in MD despite the fact they haven't played a game in the DMV in about 20 years. For football, it's all about building relationships with HS coaches and establishing a pipeline. Even an appearance in town every other year for an OSU or Michigan would help that. As for basketball, it's more about building relationships via the AAU programs, and there I agree with you, one game every other year in MD probably wouldn't amount to much.

#297 Chris B

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:09 PM

Fixed.


Totally forgot to ad the Yellow Jackets to my list (even though I discussed them earlier). But yeah, you're right.

#298 mdak06

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:57 PM

I agree that there are definitely some ACC teams that could appeal to the Big Ten, and Rutgers is also a possibility for them. Thankfully none of it will happen (other than Rutgers, which is quite unlikely barring some unexpected change). I can't imagine it would be worth it to any school to spend $50 million to leave the ACC.

#299 Oriole85

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:49 AM

I think you're overlooking the primary appeal UM has for the B1G ($$$) and where it comes from. The B1G and Pac-12 are similar in that both now have conference-owned networks (although the B1G only owns about half of theirs). Whether the UM/B1G novelty is there 5 years later or not, and whether the Terps are any good on the field or not, the BTN still collects subscriber fees via the millions of pay-TV customers in the DC/Balt area. Just like Colorado for the Pac-12 Network. Strong, steady revenues = conference stability.

As for recruits, until now, Penn State seems to have done quite well in MD despite the fact they haven't played a game in the DMV in about 20 years. For football, it's all about building relationships with HS coaches and establishing a pipeline. Even an appearance in town every other year for an OSU or Michigan would help that. As for basketball, it's more about building relationships via the AAU programs, and there I agree with you, one game every other year in MD probably wouldn't amount to much.

Plenty of people already get Big Ten Network in the area, the numbers I don't know. But if it's a big number it's a moot point since the subscriber fees are already accounted for. Actually, a reason that Maryland wouldn't be needed. Penn State gets plenty of DMV players b/c it's relatively close-by. If you want to play at an elite football school and be within driving distance in the DMV, PSU was your best option for a number of years. Maryland and UVA football lag behind and VTech has become more prominent in recent years, but PSU (pre-scandal) was definitely considered mroe elite)

Colorado was added primarily to get a Championship Game. The Pac-12 Network was more of an idea when it was formed. SImply put Colorado was the best option. Utah was the second best. Not as many options on the west coast. BYU was probably the third. They talked about adding the Texas schools last year, wouldn't have worked particularly Texas with the Longhorn Network. And without the big school, the other schools weren't in demand.

Well were both arguing about something that's not likely going to happen re: Maryland being added to the Big 10.
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#300 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:34 AM

The BTN charges different fees per subscriber, depending on location. Carriers are charged about $.04/month per subscriber outside the conference's footprint (like Maryland), and $.37/month for subscribers inside the footprint. So if the conference added Maryland, they could multiply the monthly revenue from the millions of pay-TV households by 9. And again, that's just the BTN. ESPN/ABC would probably renegotiate and pay them more too for adding the DC/Balt media markets to their footprint.

Totally agree with your last statement.....MD is not leaving the ACC at a $50 million price tag, so no sense beating a dead horse any further.




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