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#1921 The Epic

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:38 AM

The city should just be taken over by the state. Everyone in City Hall is clearly too incompetent to do the job. (Jack Young, acting as Mayor is laughable. Bigger Idiot than Pugh). They give themselves raises as the city crumbles around them and schools can’t even get the proper amenities.

Let the state have a look at the books (that are probably fucked anyway), have them look at their priorities, which are definitely out of whack, and get them in order. Have the state do the financial analysis. Figure out how much money is coming in, where it’s going. Outside eyes make an unbiased financial plan for the next few years. One focused on lowering property taxes which are double the next highest in the state. One focused on lowering the income tax which is the highest allowed by law. One focused on making schools worth going to. One that doesn’t include raises for City Hall officials who are not hurting with their salaries. Better Taxes and better schools will keep people in the city.

Maybe in 10 years, give the city their own government back, under close supervision of the state, with strict rules enacted by the state to prevent any downfall again.

 

There's so many reasons that this would make everything ten times worse, but just to answer the bolded portion...unless the amount of fat on the books was astronomical, just otherworldly, you're not going to lower taxes and improve the schools. 

 

I don't agree with the "clean house, clean books, THEN throw money at the problem"  solution, but that's more feasible than just letting the state swoop in. There's no way the state would release hold, if that ever happened.


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#1922 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:14 PM

Could not disagree with that anymore.

Besides, that violates the Constitution.


The Maryland Constitution? Because The state of Michigan took over financial management of city of Detroit when they were $18 billion in debt. That’s what I’m saying should be done here. Enough is enough.
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#1923 BSLRobShields

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:26 PM

Anyone who is disgusted by Baltimore, should be disgusted with what caused the elements of Baltimore that they're disgusted by. And of course they should understand what did cause it.



There’s a ton of stuff that caused it. Not all of it is the social injustice you want it to be either.

That being said, none of that matters now. All that matters is fixing it.
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#1924 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:52 PM

The Maryland Constitution? Because The state of Michigan took over financial management of city of Detroit when they were $18 billion in debt. That’s what I’m saying should be done here. Enough is enough.


I thought you were referring to something different. Anyway, I really don't see Baltimore's problems being related to a significant mismanagement of money. They aren't perfect of course, but it's incredibly difficult to fix these problems and the level of that challenge is often not considered when people judge Baltimore City's government. I don't see any reason to believe the state would fair any better. More of their assistance would be great though, same with the from the federal government, but that's not going to happen because most people don't care enough or in some cases, at all.

#1925 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:08 PM

There’s a ton of stuff that caused it. Not all of it is the social injustice you want it to be either.

That being said, none of that matters now. All that matters is fixing it.


I don't want there to be any specific causes to the problems of inner city Baltimore or other inner cities, or with the African American community at large. There just are specific causes that are very clear if one studies the history. And those causes are very tied to racism. If one is not aware of the history, that's understandable, but otherwise, I'm not sure the purpose of denying the history and its impact.

I don't agree with that last line. In order to fix problems, especially at this level, it is imperative to understand the causes. One reason for that is to avoid doing similar things that caused and/or exacerbated the problem. Additionally, it can lead to some accountability for the people and institutions responsible, and should lead to a mass effort to make up for the unfair and tremendous pain and disadvantages that have been forced upon millions of Americans.

#1926 BSLRobShields

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:13 PM

I don't want there to be any specific causes to the problems of inner city Baltimore or other inner cities, or with the African American community at large. There just are specific causes that are very clear if one studies the history. And those causes are very tied to racism. If one is not aware of the history, that's understandable, but otherwise, I'm not sure the purpose of denying the history and its impact.

I don't agree with that last line. In order to fix problems, especially at this level, it is imperative to understand the causes. One reason for that is to avoid doing similar things that caused and/or exacerbated the problem. Additionally, it can lead to some accountability for the people and institutions responsible, and should lead to a mass effort to make up for the unfair and tremendous pain and disadvantages that have been forced upon millions of Americans.

But agreement on the why isn’t always going to be agreed upon, especially going down the path you want to take it (which I have zero interest in doing here).

End of the day, I don’t disagree that learning from history is important. But you still have to fix it. Or you don’t...and the place becomes a bigger shit hole than it already is.
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#1927 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:11 PM

Of course the agreement on why isn't always going to be there, but it's very plain to see for anyone that wants to evaluate history fairly.

I'm not trying to take this down any particular path, just like I wasn't trying to root for particular causes, I'm simply stating what the primary cause is, which should be very relevant to this conversation.

#1928 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:35 PM

Maybe it should Mike, but 1/2 the population is never going to embrace that. And if you want to find solutions that 50% needs to be engaged and receptive to would be solutions.

Im not sure accurately accounting for why matters if it pushes possible would be solutions further away.


In regards to State control I could be in favor.

You would be pulling in others to have some additional responsibility for the citizens (should have some now)...

Clearly one repercussion would be that some outside of the existing lines would only seek to address the needs of their direct constituents (short sighted when ignoring larger issues of Baltimore does impact those outside the City lines).

One positive repercussion is that State leaders could no longer solely finger point and say those City leaders arent doing their respective jobs.

Idk, no easy answers.

 

(For the record, there was an announced plan to roll back property taxes to lowest rates in 50 years.)



#1929 DJ MC

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:35 PM

(1) One focused on lowering property taxes which are double the next highest in the state. (2) One focused on lowering the income tax which is the highest allowed by law. (3) One focused on making schools worth going to.

 

Numbers one and two not only wouldn't solve things, they would actively hurt them, especially number three.

 

If you want to rework the city budget, that's one thing. But this is like looking at someone with a mountain of student-loan and credit-card debt and saying, "OK, in addition to putting you on strict budget limits, we're going to cut your salary."


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#1930 The Epic

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:49 PM

Clearly one repercussion would be that some outside of the existing lines would only seek to address the needs of their direct constituents (short sighted when ignoring larger issues of Baltimore does impact those outside the City lines).
 

 

I could be sure that one of the top two things that they would do is slow, or stop, public transportation to certain areas. 



#1931 Mark Carver

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:12 PM

Baltimore City schools is a failure beyond those in charge to fix it, including city officials and administrators. IMO the state should take it over. When the city cannot teach it's young people, how does one expect those to fix the city's problem.  In 2018, the state is paying for 70.3% of their funding.

 

http://dls.maryland....gInMaryland.pdf

 

As per the 2017 census, administrators (principals and high-level employees at North Avenue) cost of $1,630 per student is the highest among the nation’s 100 largest public school districts. To put that into perspective, other major cities like New York ($615), Miami ($498) and Dallas ($614) spend about a third as much

 

https://foxbaltimore...for-admin-costs

 

Baltimore City Public Schools spent the fifth-most per student among the 100 largest school districts in the U.S. during fiscal year 2016, according to data released Monday by the Census Bureau.

 

The city school district spent $15,168 per pupil during the year. Baltimore City Public Schools is the 39th-largest elementary and secondary public school district in the U.S. Overall, five Maryland school districts ranked among the top 10.

 

https://www.bizjourn...ong-top-10.html

 

Since 2009, city schools have lost out on roughly $66 million in state funding for much-needed repairs after approved projects ran afoul of state regulations meant to prevent waste, records show. The money could have funded dozens of new heating systems at schools where the heat is now failing.

 

https://www.baltimor...0104-story.html

 

In 2017, 13 high schools, zero students proficient in math!

 

https://foxbaltimore...ficient-in-math


John Keegan, a renowned British military historian, has called World War II the greatest single event in the history of mankind. - Tom Brokaw, NBC special correspondent and author of "The Greatest Generation"


#1932 Mark Carver

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:38 PM

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John Keegan, a renowned British military historian, has called World War II the greatest single event in the history of mankind. - Tom Brokaw, NBC special correspondent and author of "The Greatest Generation"


#1933 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:25 PM

Maybe it should Mike, but 1/2 the population is never going to embrace that. And if you want to find solutions that 50% needs to be engaged and receptive to would be solutions.

Im not sure accurately accounting for why matters if it pushes possible would be solutions further away.


In regards to State control I could be in favor.

You would be pulling in others to have some additional responsibility for the citizens (should have some now)...

Clearly one repercussion would be that some outside of the existing lines would only seek to address the needs of their direct constituents (short sighted when ignoring larger issues of Baltimore does impact those outside the City lines).

One positive repercussion is that State leaders could no longer solely finger point and say those City leaders arent doing their respective jobs.

Idk, no easy answers.

(For the record, there was an announced plan to roll back property taxes to lowest rates in 50 years.)


Yeah, 50% of the population is unlikely to support a mass effort to improve things because they don't care all that much. So yes, we have to either somehow work within a realistic framework or change what is realistic by convincing more people to care about what our country has done to this group of people. But quite frankly, what really upsets me is dealing with people who would not only fail to support such an effort, but they would actively fight against it; yet they love to talk about how awful things are in places like Baltimore while bashing the leadership and the very people most affected by the problem for not somehow making the situation tenable.

#1934 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 05:34 PM

Baltimore City schools is a failure beyond those in charge to fix it, including city officials and administrators. IMO the state should take it over. When the city cannot teach it's young people, how does one expect those to fix the city's problem. In 2018, the state is paying for 70.3% of their funding.

http://dls.maryland....gInMaryland.pdf

As per the 2017 census, administrators (principals and high-level employees at North Avenue) cost of $1,630 per student is the highest among the nation’s 100 largest public school districts. To put that into perspective, other major cities like New York ($615), Miami ($498) and Dallas ($614) spend about a third as much

https://foxbaltimore...for-admin-costs


https://www.bizjourn...ong-top-10.html


https://www.baltimor...0104-story.html

In 2017, 13 high schools, zero students proficient in math!

https://foxbaltimore...ficient-in-math

City schools could be better just as the schools in the county could be better. As a teacher in the city, I do have ideas to make things better. However, the primary problem is not the schools themselves, rather it is the environment in which they exist in. The learning outcomes can be improved, but they aren't going to be satisfactory unless the environment that these kids and their parents live in is greatly improved.

But this is another issue where if people actually cared, this wouldn't be the case because we would have collectively addressed the broader environment, but more specifically as it relates to education, not be cool with schools that are demographically very close to the way they were before Brown v. Board of Education. This statement does not single out a particular political party either.

Also regarding the pay for staff in a school district like Baltimore, it really doesn't take a genius to figure out why that may be higher than in the suburbs.

#1935 BSLRobShields

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:15 PM

Hard to care when the leadership continues to be corrupt and continues to screw up.

Hard to care when the answer to the question is to throw money at the problem but those making those decisions continue to screw up.

I’m sure there are some people out there who don’t care for
Social reasons you like to always mention.

Then there are those who have zero confidence they will do anything properly. Doesn’t mean you don’t try but when you continue to get screwed over, you tend to throw your arms up and say fuck it.

Everyone has answers and a lot of those answers are well researched, well said and make a lot of sense.

But people have to implement those decisions. People have to approve those decisions and actually spend the money wisely.

Do you believe the current or likely future leadership can do that? You think Mosby or Thiru or whoever will be the right person in place to turn the city around even if these types of programs are allowed?
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#1936 DJ MC

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:05 PM

Hard to care when the leadership continues to be corrupt and continues to screw up.

Hard to care when the answer to the question is to throw money at the problem but those making those decisions continue to screw up.

I’m sure there are some people out there who don’t care for
Social reasons you like to always mention.

Then there are those who have zero confidence they will do anything properly. Doesn’t mean you don’t try but when you continue to get screwed over, you tend to throw your arms up and say fuck it.

Everyone has answers and a lot of those answers are well researched, well said and make a lot of sense.

But people have to implement those decisions. People have to approve those decisions and actually spend the money wisely.

Do you believe the current or likely future leadership can do that? You think Mosby or Thiru or whoever will be the right person in place to turn the city around even if these types of programs are allowed?

 

Hopelessness is contagious, and it can be difficult to stay focused on the greater goal when there is so much going against you. If people are pulling in their own directions, both inside and outside of the city, it won't matter who is driving the cart because it won't go anywhere.


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#1937 DJ MC

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:08 PM

But quite frankly, what really upsets me is dealing with people who would not only fail to support such an effort, but they would actively fight against it; yet they love to talk about how awful things are in places like Baltimore while bashing the leadership and the very people most affected by the problem for not somehow making the situation tenable.

 

There is definitely a large population of people who like to talk a big game about those within the city taking responsibility for the problems, yet themselves want the ability to enjoy the amenities the city provides without taking their own responsibility to support it. And, as you say, even actively fighting against that.


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#1938 mweb08

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:22 PM

Leadership can be better in Baltimore and elsewhere. Valid critiques can be made and things can potentially be done to improve things to some degree. Pugh screwed up, as have people all over the place, and in many professions for that matter, politics or elsewhere. Still, no excuse for her, but she's just an easy example for people to scapegoat rather than looking at the bigger picture.

I am not taking much of a stance here on the current or recent iterations of city government. I am saying that it's wrong to act like they're the problem or causing the problem. They may not be doing the best in terms of solutions, and sometimes they even make things a little worse, but the problem is massive and was caused before we were even alive and has been exacerbated since in some ways (some local government, but a lot of it from the state and national level). Some positives have existed as well. Overall though, I don't care who the major is or who is in the city council, this is too great of a problem to adequately take on without a lot of additional support. Of course some things can be done around the edges, and all of that can be debated, but it's naive to expect some great local government leaders, if elected, to be able to undue the negative impact of centuries of systematic racism, which is most profoundly seen in places like Baltimore.

It would be like if I had several thousands of dollars in student debt, several thousands of dollars in credit card debt, no significant assets, 4 kids to pay child support on, a low salary, and no prospects for better income going forward, but then a great financial advisor decided to take me on as a client pro bono. Ok, that's helpful, but I'm still screwed.

This needs to be a more significant, collective undertaking. With that, the state and federal governments would obviously have more say over that process, since they would be larger stakeholders than they currently are.

#1939 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:51 AM

Apparently the 98 rock morning show group sent a basket of medicine and pizza bagel bites to the porch of the Mayors house to lure her out.

Expected to resign today. Lol. This is like a mad lib.
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#1940 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:08 AM

Breaking News: @wjz has just learned that mayor Catherine Pugh will resign effective today. We have more in our local news update coming up for you at 8:55am.






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