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BSL: PFF grades the Ravens O-line


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#1 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:09 PM

http://baltimorespor...-ravens-o-line/

 

We know they have been bad. But just how bad?


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#2 BSLRobShields

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

Paging AQ Shipley!?
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#3 primetime

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:23 AM

Matt mentioned this in another thread and I had intentions of starting a thread about it....with the hiring of Juan Castillo, adding him to Caldwell and OLine coach Andy Moeller, are there too many cooks in the kitchen? Simply too many voices in the meeting room?<br /><br />I understand the premise of the Castillo hire; rumors are that Caldwell gets another head coaching gig after this year, there's no obvious in house replacement, so you bring in Castillo a year early to get familiar with the team and then he ascends to OC for 2014.<br /><br />All that said, what's the impact this year? So far, it seems like the offense as a whole but particularly the offensive line is sort of in between clubs, so to speak. We want to be up tempo, no huddle, spread the field with the pass but then we want to go I formation and use a power run game. <br /><br />To add to that, what's Castillo's philosophy as "run game coordinator"? Is he employing the zone blocking concepts that Leach brought in from Houston? Or is he going with more straight up man blocking schemes? <br /><br />Perhaps some of the hard core film guys can add some insight but I think we have the guys in place and that the issues are mental, rather than physical. Maybe it will just take time yo adjust to the new coaches and maybe there's still a learning curve with Caldwell's system and learning new schemes and new verbage.<br /><br />If the OLine is still scuffling in week 7 or so, we've got problems.
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#4 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:01 PM

I think some of the issues are physical while others are mental, depending on the player. I'm not sure if that makes much sense, so let me try to explain what I mean.

Bryant McKinnie is a massive dude and he just doesn't move very well, which is a requisite for the ZBS. He is slow off the snap and dies a poor job if sealing the backside of these zone stretch plays.

For young guys like KO and Gradkowski, I think the problems are more mental. They may miss a block but it looks more like they just atrnt sure about their assignments. They have the physical ability to succeed in the ZBS.

For whatever reason, Oher has been poor in run blocking as well and he has zero excuse. I'd like to see us use more power blocking schemes personally, but that is far from guaranteed success as well.

Right now it is just a matter of poor execution for a variety if reasons. I hope it can rectified soon because the offense really needs the running game in particular to get better. Pass protection has been decent, but there us certainly room for improvements here as well.
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#5 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

Ravens.com: Harbaugh pinpoints offensive line woes
http://www.baltimore...a6-39298176c8bc



#6 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:12 AM

PressBox: Yanda a perfect fit for Baltimore
http://www.pressboxo...s-And-Baltimore



#7 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

Harbaugh mentioned that Gradkowski is struggling with the line calls, and the transistion of taking that over from Matt Birk. I guess the pointing we see as they approach the line. Would it be that hard to take that load off the rookie and have Yanda do it? I mean I don't know. I've never played o-line, so why does it have to be the center? So that the whole line can hear him? <br /><br />I just think Gradkowski needs to worry about blocking better rather than calling out the defense. One thing at a time.
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#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:45 AM

https://www.profootb...-first-quarter/

Still last.

Gino continues to be awful...and I'm sure it is hurting KO.
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#9 bnickle

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:47 PM

Not just the worst, but clearly the worst. 5 points worse than Sea.

 

 

We are going to have to overhaul this line early in the draft next year. I wont pretend to know the propsects and where and how they rank but we are going to have to draft a C relatively early for sure and quite possible a RT as well. This is assuming we are happy with Monroe and are able to resign him.



#10 MattJergensen

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:39 PM

I'm still amazed at how far they've fallen in just a season.

 

https://www.profootb...ensive-lines/2/

 

Note the grades for 2012. They were #17. Middle of the pack.

 

If Monroe is the answer you'd expect him to get re-signed with McKinnie gone. I do not agree with simply cutting him at this stage. Depth is not something the Ravens have so at the very least he could plug in if you absolutely had to. Gradkowski has been miserable so far and they'll need to upgrade either through draft or free agency. Osemele has struggled so far which has been unexpected. You'd hope it's due to soft beds causing back trouble and not some other reason. Yanda hasn't been his normal Pro Bowl self either.

 

That leaves Oher as the biggest in-house question mark. Do you want to re-sign him at RT? What does his contract look like?

 

It's so strange how things can change in just a season.



#11 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:24 PM

For what it's worth, I took a look a Mel Kipers Big Board. He has four OTs in his top 25.

 

#4 Jake Matthews from Texas A&M. Probably a top 5 talent given he can play both RT and LT.

 

#6 Taylor Lewan from Michigan. Kiper says he's a complete left tackle although not a gifted athlete for his size (6'8" 308lbs).

 

#12 Cyrus Kouandjio from Alabama. Ozzie loves his Bama guys. Kiper cites inconsistency as a pass protector this year, but has quick feet and long arms to keep rushers at bay. If drafted this year, it would be before his 21st birthday.

 

#18 Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. Kiper thinks if he could become more fundementally sound, he would be the top tackle in a class that's pretty strong.

 

While it's still too early to judge players, it's good to know that the OT class in the upcoming draft is a strong one. If Eugene Monroe is a long term solution, and the Ravens think one of these guys is an upgrade over Oher, and they can land him, Oher may be let go. 


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#12 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:57 PM

For what it's worth, I took a look a Mel Kipers Big Board. He has four OTs in his top 25.

 

#4 Jake Matthews from Texas A&M. Probably a top 5 talent given he can play both RT and LT.

 

#6 Taylor Lewan from Michigan. Kiper says he's a complete left tackle although not a gifted athlete for his size (6'8" 308lbs).

 

#12 Cyrus Kouandjio from Alabama. Ozzie loves his Bama guys. Kiper cites inconsistency as a pass protector this year, but has quick feet and long arms to keep rushers at bay. If drafted this year, it would be before his 21st birthday.

 

#18 Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. Kiper thinks if he could become more fundementally sound, he would be the top tackle in a class that's pretty strong.

 

While it's still too early to judge players, it's good to know that the OT class in the upcoming draft is a strong one. If Eugene Monroe is a long term solution, and the Ravens think one of these guys is an upgrade over Oher, and they can land him, Oher may be let go. 

 

Cyrus Kouandjio is local guy (sorta... from Cameroon, but went to DeMatha).


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#13 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

For what it's worth, I took a look a Mel Kipers Big Board. He has four OTs in his top 25.

 

#4 Jake Matthews from Texas A&M. Probably a top 5 talent given he can play both RT and LT.

 

#6 Taylor Lewan from Michigan. Kiper says he's a complete left tackle although not a gifted athlete for his size (6'8" 308lbs).

 

#12 Cyrus Kouandjio from Alabama. Ozzie loves his Bama guys. Kiper cites inconsistency as a pass protector this year, but has quick feet and long arms to keep rushers at bay. If drafted this year, it would be before his 21st birthday.

 

#18 Antonio Richardson from Tennessee. Kiper thinks if he could become more fundementally sound, he would be the top tackle in a class that's pretty strong.

 

While it's still too early to judge players, it's good to know that the OT class in the upcoming draft is a strong one. If Eugene Monroe is a long term solution, and the Ravens think one of these guys is an upgrade over Oher, and they can land him, Oher may be let go. 

It's a very deep class at OT. There are several other guys that I would give first or second round grades including James Hurst at UNC, Antonio Richardson at Tennessee, and Seantrel Henderson at Miami. I think it will definitely be a position addressed early in the draft, and I would venture to guess that Monroe will be offered a contract if he plays well. He should be a priority over Oher IMO.

 

I'm not ready to give up on Gradkowski. He has had some poor showings, but he is still very new to starting in the NFL. The grade by PFF is poor but part of that stems from the high level of performance expected from a center. To my eyes he hasnt been as bad as that grade entails. We also have Jensen and Shipley who are in house options at center if Gino does not progress this year.


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#14 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

So has losing Birk and replacing him with Gradkowski, combined with McKinnie's poor play really knocked us down that far? Oher has always been somewhat of a disappointment/bust, but Yanda has always been a beast.

Is it losing Boldin and Pitta causing Flacco to hold the ball longer? But we can't run either.

What gives?

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#15 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

Yes, I think the key has been Gradkowski truly struggling in a huge way. That has hurt Osemele, and even Yanda at times. Birk wasn't the most effective week in and week out, but he was a pro and knew all the nuisances of the C position.


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#16 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:59 PM

So has losing Birk and replacing him with Gradkowski, combined with McKinnie's poor play really knocked us down that far? Oher has always been somewhat of a disappointment/bust, but Yanda has always been a beast.


Is it losing Boldin and Pitta causing Flacco to hold the ball longer? But we can't run either.


What gives?


Even Yanda hasnt been his usual self this year. Hes struggled the last two weeks. Maybe he and KO have to account for Ginos shortcomings where as last year Birk had his guy, and they didn't have to worry about it.

I actually think Flacco has done a good job at getting the ball out quicker this year. At least in the Houston game his quick trigger was noticeable. Even that pick 6 last week, he made his five step drop and without hesitation was firing deep. McKinnie just sucked on that one and Flacco got his arm hit.

On the run game, the line is terrible, but I question whether or not Rice has been 100% at all this year. Who knows.
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#17 primetime

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:22 AM

So has losing Birk and replacing him with Gradkowski, combined with McKinnie's poor play really knocked us down that far? Oher has always been somewhat of a disappointment/bust, but Yanda has always been a beast.

Is it losing Boldin and Pitta causing Flacco to hold the ball longer? But we can't run either.

What gives?

 

There are a bunch of things in play. The biggest thing, IMO, is the completion of the transistion to Caldwell as OC. Remember last year, Caldwell just called plays from Cam's offense, dusted off some plays and what not. This year, we're seeing a bunch of new looks, new route combos and concepts. Perhaps the part that impacts the offense the most is that there is likely a whole new set of terminology that was introduced along with the new plays, new protections, blocking shcemes, etc. There are a lot of guys on offense that have been here for 3 or more years and the new the language of the offense backwards and forwards; having to learn new terminology at game speed is a big factor.

 

Next, Juan Castillo in a full time role as whatever bogus title he has (run game coordinator). He's another voice in the offensive meeting room, working with the OLine and coaching them up with some new techniques.

 

Remember when discussing the OLine, we have a lot of guys dealing with being nicked up. Yanda is still working his way back from shoulder surgery, Osemele has had some back stuff, Oher had that brutal ankle sprain on opening night. With Gradkowski, I think he's having a tough time with the mental part of the game, making line calls, identifying the Mike, etc and that's leading to him being a little slow off the ball; as a result, he's getting pushed around at times. With McKinnie, I don't know what it is, other than he's a turd. I got nothing else.

 

In general, I think a lot of the issues are pertaining to the new things that Castillo is trying to introduce. Harbaugh made a vague reference to as much this week. He said something to the effect of there are some new protection things that have been introduced and the OLine is working on them.

 

Monroe getting the nod this week is going to help of course. Then, we just have to hope that we can grind out some wins until guys get healthy and then can grasp some of the new stuff coming in from the coaching staff.


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#18 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

Well, we won't be coaxing Birk out of retirement!:

 

http://russellstreet...since-retiring/


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#19 primetime

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

I'm really curious of something, surely we'll never know for sure but since Castillo is the "run game coordinator" does that mean Caldwell is completely divorced from the running game plan and it's all Castillo? Is it a collaborative effort?

 

Either way, it would seem to me that there's an obvious case of too many cooks in the kitchen and the result is the players underperforming.


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#20 Cisc-O's

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:38 PM

I think things like this get overblown when teams under perform and people look for answers.  The only thing Castillo would work on is direct direction on what Caldwell wants not his own way.  You don't normally see people coaching three different things on a team as put together as the Ravens and if they are that falls on Harbaugh.  I doubt this is happening although CC will most likely leap to that.


I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.





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