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Is it time to move Johnson from the closer role?


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#1 ChaosLex

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:01 PM

Do you stomach Johnson for longer hoping he turns the corner? Do you give the role to Hunter, Matusz, etc.? 


What say you?


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#2 Russ

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:03 PM

I would've demoted him a month ago. The question is whether Buck will do it and I don't think he will.

#3 Ricker Says

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:03 PM

I posted this in his player thread, but since you started a new thread, I'll ask again here:

 

 

Ground rule here - keep the venting irrationality to tonight's game thread... try to keep a level head for this conversation.

 

1.) When will JJ be demoted? 

 

I think tonight brought the possibility of this to life. Before tonight, I had full faith he'd get it right and be fine. At this point, I think the team has to start to considering it, but likely won't make a chance unless he blows like 2-3 or more in a row. Your thoughts?

 

2.) Did this start in the ALDS last year? Has that haunted him? 

 

This reminds me a bit of Cundiff. Yet, he converted like 15 straight saves to start the year. But still... we look up, it's Mid-May, late-may, mid-June, we're contending again. It's real again, and then he starts falling apart. I'm not sure if that haunts him, but it can't be helping him.


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#4 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:09 PM

I don't think you make a formal announcement that he is no longer the closer, but Buck will have to go with whomever is hot. If Hunter, O'Day, or Matusz are in the game prior to Johnson and pitching well; the move Buck has to make, is no longer automatically still calling Johnson's name.


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#5 BSLMichaelWeber

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:10 PM

It has to be considered. How about Buck focusing on the win rule over the save rule? Nothing wrong with leaving a reliever in who dominated the 8th or playing the matchups instead of going to Johnson.

The closer role is overrated imo so in that sense I almost don't want to lose Hunter from his current role so he can come in for just one inning and sometimes in lower leverage situations.
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#6 JTrea81

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:15 PM

Johnson is shaky but it was the pathetic performance of the Orioles offense that put him in that situation.  Your bullpen looks 100 times worse when you can't give them more than a 1 run lead.  And with a shaky closer that was probably the worst situation he could have faced.

 

The Orioles have a bunch of free swingers on their team as there is no regular with a P/PA over 4.00 so when they can't hit XBHs in bunches, they'll let the opposing SP dominate them and they'll force their starter out there to tire him out more and exit the game earlier.  And the bullpen will have that much extra pressure to hold a slim lead.

 

Unless things turn around, this team if it makes the playoffs has no chance against good SP if they don't learn how to work the count in the 2nd half or acquire some more talent that can.

 

I'm more worried about the offense than Jim Johnson frankly as it was the offense that let the Orioles down in the playoffs last year and this past week they've regressed facing only mediocre starters.



#7 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

I posed the same question on bnicks thread.

Gausman as a closer? He's got the upper 90s FB, devastating change up.

Not long term or course. But while its still early enough to be tinkering with things, hand him the ball in the 9th once. Or the 8th and 9th of Buck wants to give him more work. See what happens. Can't be worse then the last two games
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#8 bnickle

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:29 PM

JJ is and pretty much has to be a back end of the arm pen for us. I dont see where moving him out of the closers role is gonna help if he is still struggling in the 7th or 8th innings. he's just blowing it sooner. I mean maybe there is some pressure relieved there ot being the "closer" but there is still going to be high leverage situations. We cant put this guy in a mop up role.

 

 

Now, what happens if Hunter cant hadle the role?? Now you've shot two guys psyche.

 

 

its a slippery slope. I dislike JJ as much as anyone right now but I dont know that the answer is yank him. Sure maybe Hunter can hadle the 9th very well. The problem is Johnson is still needed and is unreliable.

 

 

Tonight was the perfect situation where Matusz should have been up for the 4 lefties in the 9th. If youre gonna have 3 lefties in the pen use them. But thats just not how shit works in this game anymore.


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#9 Ricker Says

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:30 PM

It has to be considered. How about Buck focusing on the win rule over the save rule? Nothing wrong with leaving a reliever in who dominated the 8th or playing the matchups instead of going to Johnson.

The closer role is overrated imo so in that sense I almost don't want to lose Hunter from his current role so he can come in for just one inning and sometimes in lower leverage situations.

 

This is the answer. Go back to believing in the "win rule" and we'll be fine, Buck.


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"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#10 DJ MC

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:37 PM

I posed the same question on bnicks thread.

Gausman as a closer? He's got the upper 90s FB, devastating change up.

Not long term or course. But while its still early enough to be tinkering with things, hand him the ball in the 9th once. Or the 8th and 9th of Buck wants to give him more work. See what happens. Can't be worse then the last two games

 

No. No no no.

 

Simply put, because he will either succeed, in which case he will never go back to starting, or fail, which wouldn't be a good thing for anyone.


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#11 bnickle

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

Now back to bashing Johnson.

 

 

 

He has 7 losses this year!!!! That is tied for 8th in the AL for all pitchers.

 

 

He's giving us the JJ special. He doesnt just blow saves, he loses games. Someone find the record for losses by a closer in a season.



#12 Ricker Says

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:49 PM

Now back to bashing Johnson.

 

 

 

He has 7 losses this year!!!! That is tied for 8th in the AL for all pitchers.

 

 

He's giving us the JJ special. he doesnt just blow saves, he losses games. Someone find the record for losses by a closer in a season.

 

Yep, that he hasn't just blown saves, but given up leads as well is just awful... and really awful on Buck too at this juncture.


@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#13 BSLRobShields

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:55 PM

Now back to bashing Johnson.
 
 
 
He has 7 losses this year!!!! That is tied for 8th in the AL for all pitchers.
 
 
He's giving us the JJ special. he doesnt just blow saves, he losses games. Someone find the record for losses by a closer in a season.


Yep...that's the issue. Blowing a save is one thing.....but he implodes and is losing games.

Shame we didn't deal him and Strop in the offseason.
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#14 DJ MC

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 09:58 PM

Now back to bashing Johnson.

 

 

 

He has 7 losses this year!!!! That is tied for 8th in the AL for all pitchers.

 

 

He's giving us the JJ special. he doesnt just blow saves, he losses games. Someone find the record for losses by a closer in a season.

 

Since I don't pay for the Play Index, just looking through some guys...

 

Rollie Fingers lost 13, 11 and nine three times in single seasons as a full-time reliever.

 

Lee Smith lost 10 games twice and nine once.

 

John Franco lost nine, and eight twice.

 

Doug Jones lost 10 twice.

 

Trevor Hoffman lost seven twice.

 

Mariano Rivera has lost six, and five twice.


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#15 Ricker Says

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

Yep...that's the issue. Blowing a save is one thing.....but he implodes and is losing games.

Shame we didn't deal him and Strop in the offseason.


Agreed. And that's not hindsight, for either of us. Not sure Strop would have had much value though given his August/September... but packaged with someone else would have certainly had some value.

Paying JJ $6.5M (7% of the team's entire payroll) to have a 4 ERA and have 8 losses. It's just not a good use of resources, even if he wasn't quite this bad.
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"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#16 BSLRobShields

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:29 PM

@danconnollysun: 3 sobering Jim Johnson stats: Blown saves in 2012, 3. So far in 2013, 6. Walks in 2012, 15; so far in 2013, 14. Ls in 2010-12: 7; 2013: 7
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#17 bnickle

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:40 PM

He sucks right now. Not bad, not struggling bit. Flat out is an unreliable scrub.

 

 

Everytime he steps on the mound O's fans should be crapping themselves.



#18 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:42 PM

I posed the same question on bnicks thread.


Gausman as a closer? He's got the upper 90s FB, devastating change up.


Not long term or course. But while its still early enough to be tinkering with things, hand him the ball in the 9th once. Or the 8th and 9th of Buck wants to give him more work. See what happens. Can't be worse then the last two games

 
No. No no no.
 
Simply put, because he will either succeed, in which case he will never go back to starting, or fail, which wouldn't be a good thing for anyone.


I'm just being hypothetical, but if he succeeds, where's the downside? He doesn't start? We don't know if he can start yet. As of now, hes not.

Rivera was always a SP before he couldn't hack it and was eventually relagated to the bullpen and then closer. That worked out well.
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#19 bnickle

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:45 PM

Mike , all I can tell you is Roy Firestone wants Gausman to close too. I'm not sure I ever want to agree with a Firestone idea. Just saying.


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#20 DJ MC

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:48 PM

It seems like almost ten days ago when he was only giving up ten baserunners and one run over a month of appearances.


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