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Johnny Manziel


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#21 Oriole85

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:27 AM

In terms of Manziel, I'm really not expecting any major regression. I think he needs training camp to start already. The more he's away from the football field, the more he gets in trouble. I think he'll be fine once there's more structure. I like Sumlin and I think there's a good program in place at A&M.


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#22 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

If in fact he does plan to enter the Draft after this season, he already has inherent factors working against him being a high pick (lack of height, arm strength). He really isn't helping his cause by allowing the party-boy image to perpetuate.



#23 Oriole85

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

If in fact he does plan to enter the Draft after this season, he already has inherent factors working against him being a high pick (lack of height, arm strength). He really isn't helping his cause by allowing the party-boy image to perpetuate.

That's exactly what Chris Mortensen said yesterday. He said he might be helped staying an extra year.

 

I think he'll reap the rewards on the endorsement deals, so he might be better served from that angle to get out of college after this year.


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#24 Markus

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

At the gym today I saw the "list" ESPN tried to put together of these horrible transgressions made by Manziel.

 

Shoving a grad assistant coach?  Oh no Ma Barker.  Shoving never happens at pee-wee practice or high school practice or college practice or pro practice.

 

Made a "bad" tweet about A&M?  Again, oh no Ma Barker.  Seriously had twitter been around when I (and many, many, many others) were 19 lord help us all.

 

Failed to give his name or gave different name to the cops after a bar fight?  Okay, not the best idea but again, 19 year olds ain't the brightest.

 

Had to leave the Manning camp a day early b/c he was reportedly (from some anonymous source or whatever) hungover, though the Manning's have refuted this?  I'll go ahead and believe the Manning's on this one.

 

I mean is Manziel probably a white knight?  Most likely not.  But you give most 19 year olds the Heisman and what kid isn't gonna take all the perks that go along with it, whether it be throwing out the 1st pitch at Padres games or sitting courtside at basketball games or being a bit cocky/arrogant on social media or whatever else?

 

Just had to laugh this morning when I saw that "list" ESPN put together.  I mean this has been the lead story for the past 2 days.  I understand there ain't not much happening in the sports world, but really ESPN, this is the best you can do?  That Fox show/network can't get here soon enough.


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#25 Oriole85

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

At the gym today I saw the "list" ESPN tried to put together of these horrible transgressions made by Manziel.

 

Shoving a grad assistant coach?  Oh no Ma Barker.  Shoving never happens at pee-wee practice or high school practice or college practice or pro practice.

 

Made a "bad" tweet about A&M?  Again, oh no Ma Barker.  Seriously had twitter been around when I (and many, many, many others) were 19 lord help us all.

 

Failed to give his name or gave different name to the cops after a bar fight?  Okay, not the best idea but again, 19 year olds ain't the brightest.

 

Had to leave the Manning camp a day early b/c he was reportedly (from some anonymous source or whatever) hungover, though the Manning's have refuted this?  I'll go ahead and believe the Manning's on this one.

 

I mean is Manziel probably a white knight?  Most likely not.  But you give most 19 year olds the Heisman and what kid isn't gonna take all the perks that go along with it, whether it be throwing out the 1st pitch at Padres games or sitting courtside at basketball games or being a bit cocky/arrogant on social media or whatever else?

 

Just had to laugh this morning when I saw that "list" ESPN put together.  I mean this has been the lead story for the past 2 days.  I understand there ain't not much happening in the sports world, but really ESPN, this is the best you can do?  That Fox show/network can't get here soon enough.

I saw that as well, he's held to a higher standard than the typical 19 year old (as he should be). ESPN not wanting to cover Tebow anymore?


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#26 Markus

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

I totally agree that he is (and should be) held to a higher standard but none of the stuff he's really done has been all that bad, at least in my opinion. 

 

The people working out next to me at the gym probably thought I was an idiot for laughing/mumbling/etc. after I saw that list.


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#27 Oriole85

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:57 PM

I totally agree that he is (and should be) held to a higher standard but none of the stuff he's really done has been all that bad, at least in my opinion. 

 

The people working out next to me at the gym probably thought I was an idiot for laughing/mumbling/etc. after I saw that list.

Agreed for the most part, the shoving thing with the GA probably bothered me the most. Other than that, he's doing what 19 year old college kids typically do who aren't so famous.

 

The "naughty list" was pretty funny, it was like he was being called into the Principal's office and the principal reading off why he was there.


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#28 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

At the gym today I saw the "list" ESPN tried to put together of these horrible transgressions made by Manziel.

 

Shoving a grad assistant coach?  Oh no Ma Barker.  Shoving never happens at pee-wee practice or high school practice or college practice or pro practice.

 

Made a "bad" tweet about A&M?  Again, oh no Ma Barker.  Seriously had twitter been around when I (and many, many, many others) were 19 lord help us all.

 

Failed to give his name or gave different name to the cops after a bar fight?  Okay, not the best idea but again, 19 year olds ain't the brightest.

 

Had to leave the Manning camp a day early b/c he was reportedly (from some anonymous source or whatever) hungover, though the Manning's have refuted this?  I'll go ahead and believe the Manning's on this one.

 

I mean is Manziel probably a white knight?  Most likely not.  But you give most 19 year olds the Heisman and what kid isn't gonna take all the perks that go along with it, whether it be throwing out the 1st pitch at Padres games or sitting courtside at basketball games or being a bit cocky/arrogant on social media or whatever else?

 

Just had to laugh this morning when I saw that "list" ESPN put together.  I mean this has been the lead story for the past 2 days.  I understand there ain't not much happening in the sports world, but really ESPN, this is the best you can do?  That Fox show/network can't get here soon enough.

 

Those things, alone or as a whole, really aren't a big deal. Especially for a college kid. But like I said, NFL GMs are probably looking at this with a very discerning eye, because regardless of what the general public thinks, they absolutely hold college prospects to a higher standard. His actions both on and off the field during this upcoming season will probably be dissected even more than they would have been before, because if this is how he handles fame and notoriety, then the NFL is really going to be worried about what happens when a lot of money is added to the equation. The cautionary tale of Ryan Leaf is still fresh in a lot of minds.



#29 McNulty

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

Doesn't anyone remember what it was like being 19?  Add in all the fame that goes with being Johnny Football, and let me know how you think you'd do.  

 

I'd be much more outrageous than he is.


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#30 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

Doesn't anyone remember what it was like being 19?  Add in all the fame that goes with being Johnny Football, and let me know how you think you'd do.  

 

I'd be much more outrageous than he is.

 

I was in the Air Force ROTC in college. And while I did my share of partying, I knew that because of the choice I had made as to what I wanted to do post-college that I had to meet certain commitments beyond most of the other students, and that it was very unwise to partake in some of the "indiscretions" that many of my friends did. Manziel is in college to prepare himself to (hopefully) go on to a very lucrative career. Because of how lucrative it can be, his prospective employer is extremely image-conscious and careful about whom they invest in, to the point where they often place value on a player who is mature beyond his years. So regardless of age, he can't expect that some of these choices and actions aren't going to have repercussions. That's just life.



#31 McNulty

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

Doesn't anyone remember what it was like being 19? Add in all the fame that goes with being Johnny Football, and let me know how you think you'd do.

I'd be much more outrageous than he is.


I was in the Air Force ROTC in college. And while I did my share of partying, I knew that because of the choice I had made as to what I wanted to do post-college that I had to meet certain commitments beyond most of the other students, and that it was very unwise to partake in some of the "indiscretions" that many of my friends did. Manziel is in college to prepare himself to (hopefully) go on to a very lucrative career. Because of how lucrative it can be, his prospective employer is extremely image-conscious and careful about whom they invest in, to the point where they often place value on a player who is mature beyond his years. So regardless of age, he can't expect that some of these choices and actions aren't going to have repercussions. That's just life.

I was already in the military at 19. That's not the point. If you allow a 19 year old to have everything he wants, all the time, no matter how far fetched, it's going to end up like this. Usually.

I'd be doing coke off of hookers for breakfast.

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#32 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

I was already in the military at 19. That's not the point. If you allow a 19 year old to have everything he wants, all the time, no matter how far fetched, it's going to end up like this. Usually.

I'd be doing coke off of hookers for breakfast.

 

I guess my point is simply that regardless of the circumstances, NFL execs are probably going to look at this in a negative light, and I don't necessarily think that is unfair.



#33 Icterus galbula

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:17 PM

There are some things I did the first couple years of college that would reflect very very poorly on me in the media.

#34 DJ MC

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:24 PM

America Is Ruining Johnny Football

 

There is a bizarre moral standard that people force on quarterbacks that very rarely applies to any other position in sports. If a linebacker showed up hungover to Peyton Manning's camp, you would have a laugh and spend all day praying that Roger Goodell didn't suspend him for the opener. But if Tony Romo does it? OH MY GOD I QUESTION HIS HEART. This is why morons go crazy over Tim Tebow—because he fulfills every meathead's wet dream about the kind of work ethic and moral rectitude a quarterback MUST have in order to lead a team to the Super Bowl. To slack off even for a single day is to fall behind.

 

...

 

Manziel now has a phantom rap sheet, a resume for his media detractors to pad. For them, each stupid fake controversy serves as yet another damning piece of evidence that Johnny Football isn't ELITE, or doesn't love the game, or some other bullshit like that. You can imagine how frustrating this would be if you were Johnny Manziel, if you were required to negotiate the demands of an idiotic media culture that judges you on the quality of your self-presentation and marketing, and conspires with your future employers to reify those judgments in ways that actually affect your work, your salary, and your professional life. The wonder isn't that great athletes often turn into bitter, hostile assholes; it's that they don't all do.


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#35 McNulty

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:57 PM

America Is Ruining Johnny Football

There is a bizarre moral standard that people force on quarterbacks that very rarely applies to any other position in sports. If a linebacker showed up hungover to Peyton Manning's camp, you would have a laugh and spend all day praying that Roger Goodell didn't suspend him for the opener. But if Tony Romo does it? OH MY GOD I QUESTION HIS HEART. This is why morons go crazy over Tim Tebow—because he fulfills every meathead's wet dream about the kind of work ethic and moral rectitude a quarterback MUST have in order to lead a team to the Super Bowl. To slack off even for a single day is to fall behind.

...

Manziel now has a phantom rap sheet, a resume for his media detractors to pad. For them, each stupid fake controversy serves as yet another damning piece of evidence that Johnny Football isn't ELITE, or doesn't love the game, or some other bullshit like that. You can imagine how frustrating this would be if you were Johnny Manziel, if you were required to negotiate the demands of an idiotic media culture that judges you on the quality of your self-presentation and marketing, and conspires with your future employers to reify those judgments in ways that actually affect your work, your salary, and your professional life. The wonder isn't that great athletes often turn into bitter, hostile assholes; it's that they don't all do.

</blockquote>

Every word of this is spot on.
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#36 Oriole85

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:16 PM

Those things, alone or as a whole, really aren't a big deal. Especially for a college kid. But like I said, NFL GMs are probably looking at this with a very discerning eye, because regardless of what the general public thinks, they absolutely hold college prospects to a higher standard. His actions both on and off the field during this upcoming season will probably be dissected even more than they would have been before, because if this is how he handles fame and notoriety, then the NFL is really going to be worried about what happens when a lot of money is added to the equation. The cautionary tale of Ryan Leaf is still fresh in a lot of minds.

If he's good enough, some team will take a chance on him. It only takes one. And Ryan Leaf wasn't exactly a major concern out of college. And for a player with character concerns, Randy Moss had a long and productive career. Does it hurt him sure, but it's overblown.


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#37 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

If he's good enough, some team will take a chance on him. It only takes one. And Ryan Leaf wasn't exactly a major concern out of college. And for a player with character concerns, Randy Moss had a long and productive career. Does it hurt him sure, but it's overblown.

 

Oh sure, I'm certain a number of teams will be willing to pick him at some point. This isn't Aaron Hernandez we're talking about here. But I'm talking about what round/spot he gets drafted. Since he isn't the prototypical NFL QB in physical stature, that is a strike against him already that could give GMs hesitation. Now add in maturity issues, be they real or simply perceived, and he could very well have cost himself some money this offseason.

 

Of course it certainly isn't too late. Like you said, the structure he will have once practices begin soon could certainly shift his full focus back to football. If he has a productive season, is a leader on his team, and walks the line for the NFL execs in the months leading up to the next Draft, all this could become a distant memory.



#38 Oriole85

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:09 AM

Oh sure, I'm certain a number of teams will be willing to pick him at some point. This isn't Aaron Hernandez we're talking about here. But I'm talking about what round/spot he gets drafted. Since he isn't the prototypical NFL QB in physical stature, that is a strike against him already that could give GMs hesitation. Now add in maturity issues, be they real or simply perceived, and he could very well have cost himself some money this offseason.

 

Of course it certainly isn't too late. Like you said, the structure he will have once practices begin soon could certainly shift his full focus back to football. If he has a productive season, is a leader on his team, and walks the line for the NFL execs in the months leading up to the next Draft, all this could become a distant memory.

We're talking about the same thing, I think you are overvaluing character issues. Will some teams stay away from him, sure. Let's say he's a first round talent to begin with, then could he fall some, sure. But if he's doing well enough on the field and there's no "big" issues, a team will take a chance on him without having him slip multiple rounds. Talent matters and just takes one of 32 teams to take that chance.

 

The actual on-field issues will drop his stock more than any character issues. Take Matt Barkley, he dropped over real concerns more than the bs surrounding Te'o. Again, talent > character. Teams will hope they are drafting the next Randy Moss and not the next Aaron Hernandez. Bottom line is if you have to win games. The front offices jobs are on the line with these drafts. 


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#39 Oriole85

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:49 AM

Just watched the ESPN interview with him -- I don't think he exactly gets it. I don't blame him for not exactly answer specifics with if he was drinking. He needed to take the high road instead of "I'm a college kid" card. 


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#40 Mackus

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:57 AM

There are some things I did the first couple years of college that would reflect very very poorly on me in the media.

 

Just be thankful you don't have to go through security clearance checks and tell some weird old dude all about everything you did in college and the years afterwards!

 

awkward...






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