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#21 Mackus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:11 PM

Braun said he never had an STD...false report.

I hope you live close to a pharmacy if that's not a phrase you disbelieve as a reflex!

#22 Why Not?

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:17 PM

Braun said he never had an STD...false report.

I hope you live close to a pharmacy if that's not a phrase you disbelieve as a reflex!


:D

#23 Why Not?

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:23 PM

Braun is running with the "somebody tampered with the sample" defense that has been very popular in cycling. I expect MLB/USADA will respond with "samples remained sealed"

#24 Mackus

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:36 PM

Braun is running with the "somebody tampered with the sample" defense that has been very popular in cycling. I expect MLB/USADA will respond with "samples remained sealed"

Yeah I think if I was him I wouldn't be getting into too much detail here. The "tampered" argument is pretty weak unless he has evidence. I'd be saying that there was some mistake in the collection and analysis of the sample that gave a false positive and that he's glad the system worked and the ruling was overturned. But I'd try to avoid expanding too much, thereby inviting people to dig deeper into the sample and ask whether or not it was thrown out because the test was wrong or tampered with and showed a false positive or if a legitimately positive test just got thrown out because of the proper methodology wasn't followed (i.e. a technicality, although an important one).

Unless I knew I was 100% innocent, in which case I'd be demanding an apology.

#25 Why Not?

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:13 PM

Unless I knew I was 100% innocent, in which case I'd be demanding an apology.


He DID keep the lawsuit avenue open, but I don't think there is much to that. Like you say, that would open this up to more investigation. I think he would like to keep everything right where it is now.

I'm curious if there has ever been a case of someone purposely tainting a urine sample. What is the mechanism for that? Would you just squirt some testasterone into the sample? The motivation for doing that is a whole seperate thing.

#26 PD24

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:22 AM

I don't believe they presented any evidence showing that the incorrect handling could have caused a false positive.....only that the handling was incorrect. That was enough to overturn the suspension.

They didn't try to present evidence that the test was incorrect because they didn't need to. They had the evidence that the process wasn't handled correctly and that alone nullifies the test.


Right, I agree they didn't need to prove the test was wrong to escape the 50-game ban. But don't you think they need to if they want to prove Braun wasn't doping? Don't you think they would want to if they had such evidence?

Right.....This is how I feel as well.
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#27 SammyBirdland

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

Posted Image
¡Hasta la vista, pelota!

#28 FlavaDave10

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:50 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every second of it.

 

 

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#29 SammyBirdland

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:27 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.



I thought for sure he did it and got away with it, until I heard him speak at his press conference. Now I'm not so sure. He was very convincing.
¡Hasta la vista, pelota!

#30 Oriole85

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

This one didn't really surprise me either way. Truth of the matter is I really don't know if he did it or not. And really none of you know either, no matter how much you claim. One person and one person only knows whether Braun used steroids, and we all know who that person is (look in the mirror, Ryan). Of course, I'd like to believe him. He plays the game the right way.

I got mixed feelings with this whole thing on him getting off a technicality. On one hand, like a criminal case, if the correct procedure wasn't applied even if it "didn't matter," it's not fair to the accused so they get off. On the otherhand, this apparently has happened in other cases. There is no doubt in mind Braun was given the benefit of the doubt because of his stature in the game and/or name recognition. I don't think this would've been afforded had a player like Robert Andino or Brad Bergeson been accused under similar circumstances.

Yes, I've heard the whole, "he'll never do it again." If that's the case, why don't we apply a two strike policy for everyone. A few other players wish they could have a mulligan.

It's over, Ryan probably caught a break. The cloud of supsicion probably won't leave him for some time. If he declines, it will be because he's "off the juice." If he has another MVP season, it will be like he's still "getting away with it."
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#31 Oriole85

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:42 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.

So anyone caught after passing 25 times would surprise you? There's lot of good con men(and women) out there.
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#32 FlavaDave10

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.



I thought for sure he did it and got away with it, until I heard him speak at his press conference. Now I'm not so sure. He was very convincing.


He basically took the easiest pathway to being proved innocent. He knew something wrong happened with the process, so he challenged the process. If I'm Braun, I'm considering legal action against the MLB for leaking the information as well.

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every second of it.

 

 

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#33 FlavaDave10

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:51 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.

So anyone caught after passing 25 times would surprise you? There's lot of good con men(and women) out there.


If it's someone like Ryan Braun, yes. My point is, he had no choice but to go after the process. Let's assume Braun's positive sample was a false positive. How the heck is he supposed to prove that it's a false positive? This is why the MLB needs to take more than one sample from players for each test. The chances of two false positives happening are far lower than the chance of one happening.

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every second of it.

 

 

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#34 Oriole85

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:32 PM

If it's someone like Ryan Braun, yes.

As opposed to someone else who passed every drug test for 5-6 years except for one but wasn't a premier player? I don't think it's a coincidence that the best player(at the time of the alleged failed test) got off. Every other player who had appealed had lost.
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#35 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:35 PM

The Baseball Report: Ryan Braun Verdict Exactly What MLB Had Coming
http://fcpbaseballre...mlb-had-coming/

#36 Why Not?

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 10:47 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.


The testasterone ratio (20/1 or 30/1) isn't as outrageous as some outlets have reported it to be. I've read it can go up to 100/1. But that number in itself isn't really that important.

Players have been getting away with using PEDs for years. They are getting away with it RIGHT NOW. The tests are beatable. You can take a big ole' dose of testasterone and have it cleared out of the your system in 24 hours. My guess is that Braun got unlucky and was in line to take a test right after he dosed up. Oops.

I don't see any reason to believe that Braun's test was a false positive. Braun's team has not claimed this. Synthetic testasterone doesn't just appear in a sample. The guy was doping.

#37 Oriole85

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:04 PM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.


The testasterone ratio (20/1 or 30/1) isn't as outrageous as some outlets have reported it to be. I've read it can go up to 100/1. But that number in itself isn't really that important.

Players have been getting away with using PEDs for years. They are getting away with it RIGHT NOW. The tests are beatable. You can take a big ole' dose of testasterone and have it cleared out of the your system in 24 hours. My guess is that Braun got unlucky and was in line to take a test right after he dosed up. Oops.

I don't see any reason to believe that Braun's test was a false positive. Braun's team has not claimed this. Synthetic testasterone doesn't just appear in a sample. The guy was doping.


Reminds no matter how much anyone tries to make something cheating proof they will fail. People will always find away to get around the system.
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#38 Can_of_corn

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

The biggest concern that this has caused is that it has exposed a huge flaw in the drug testing process:

How are you supposed to prove your innocence without challenging the process?

Think about it. False positives, while they don't have that often, definitely do happen. Suppose that this was a false positive (which I think is what happened). How could Braun have possibly proved that it was a false positive? Basically impossible.

I find it hard to believe Braun wasn't caught doping earlier if he was juicing as much as his positive sample suggests he was.


The testasterone ratio (20/1 or 30/1) isn't as outrageous as some outlets have reported it to be. I've read it can go up to 100/1. But that number in itself isn't really that important.

Players have been getting away with using PEDs for years. They are getting away with it RIGHT NOW. The tests are beatable. You can take a big ole' dose of testasterone and have it cleared out of the your system in 24 hours. My guess is that Braun got unlucky and was in line to take a test right after he dosed up. Oops.

I don't see any reason to believe that Braun's test was a false positive. Braun's team has not claimed this. Synthetic testasterone doesn't just appear in a sample. The guy was doping.


They had a solid defense, why should they muddle it up by throwing other stuff out there?

Well I hear Linda Ronstadt is looking for a guitar player.


#39 Why Not?

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:07 AM

They had a solid defense, why should they muddle it up by throwing other stuff out there?


I would think that in addition to reversing the suspension, they would also want to prove Braun's innocence. They haven't put forward any legit reasons/excuses for the failed test. They haven't questioned or addressed the fact that synthetic testosterone was in Braun's urine.

#40 Can_of_corn

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

I would think that in addition to reversing the suspension, they would also want to prove Braun's innocence. They haven't put forward any legit reasons/excuses for the failed test. They haven't questioned or addressed the fact that synthetic testosterone was in Braun's urine.


I would argue that is a job for Braun's PR people, not his attorneys.

Well I hear Linda Ronstadt is looking for a guitar player.





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