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Where does Lamar rank right now?


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#81 Mike B

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:30 AM

I don’t think it’s about people not being able to admit they are wrong.

They are admitting that right now..almost no one would have had him as a top 10 QB right now after his rookie year. Most people wouldn’t have had him there after he was drafted.

By placing him this high already (even if you don’t think it’s high enough), they are already saying they were wrong.

But, it was explained by some have him lower..the pure QB skills. Plenty of argument that he should be ranked there if that’s how you choose to look at it.

I think the counter to the argument is what has been said before..he’s a total weapon and that his running isn’t being considered enough by some.

That’s a fair argument to make, especially if you are talking about right now.

I disagree, guys are still finding reasons to not rank him high.  

Results are the only thing that matters.  Other than Mahomes who produced more than Lamar?  Not Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Watson etc.


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#82 SportsGuy

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:30 AM

And frankly at 31 years old, I would not take Wilson either.  I really like the Athletic, it is a good site, but they got it wrong on this one.


The discussion wasn’t about who you take for the next 5-10 years.

It’s right now. So, age has nothing to do with it and Wilson being 31 is meaningless.

And if it was a long term discussion, it’s definitely fair to question how much of a weapon Lamar will continue to be with his legs and that you would prefer a more traditional QB.

You can’t have this argument both ways.

#83 Slidemaster

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 02:36 PM

The discussion wasn’t about who you take for the next 5-10 years.

It’s right now. So, age has nothing to do with it and Wilson being 31 is meaningless.

And if it was a long term discussion, it’s definitely fair to question how much of a weapon Lamar will continue to be with his legs and that you would prefer a more traditional QB.

You can’t have this argument both ways.


Earlier you told me the reason that people likely dinged Lamar compared to others was that people were projecting who would hold up better due to their throwing.

Which one is it?

#84 SportsGuy

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Posted 04 August 2020 - 02:47 PM

Earlier you told me the reason that people likely dinged Lamar compared to others was that people were projecting who would hold up better due to their throwing.
Which one is it?




There are different conversations going on and the answer isn’t the same for all of them.

My answer to you, without knowing what you are really asking, is that it’s all of the answers as to why people are dinging him..but the reasons are different if it’s for the 2020 season or if it’s 5-10 years down the road.

#85 Slidemaster

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 01:06 AM

There are different conversations going on and the answer isn’t the same for all of them.

My answer to you, without knowing what you are really asking, is that it’s all of the answers as to why people are dinging him..but the reasons are different if it’s for the 2020 season or if it’s 5-10 years down the road.


The fact that he's getting dinged in the now after winning the MVP tells me people are looking for reasons to downplay his success.

The fact that he's being dinged because "now" isn't the most important part of the discussion of ranking QBs tells me that people are looking for reasons to downplay his success.
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#86 SportsGuy

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 05:57 AM

The fact that he's getting dinged in the now after winning the MVP tells me people are looking for reasons to downplay his success.
The fact that he's being dinged because "now" isn't the most important part of the discussion of ranking QBs tells me that people are looking for reasons to downplay his success.

Ok

#87 Mike B

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:09 AM

There are different conversations going on and the answer isn’t the same for all of them.

My answer to you, without knowing what you are really asking, is that it’s all of the answers as to why people are dinging him..but the reasons are different if it’s for the 2020 season or if it’s 5-10 years down the road.

I get your argument, but there are problems with the ranking of Lamar 7th, both in the now and 5 years from now.

There is no way, that someone like Rodgers should be ranked ahead of Lamar in any ranking


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#88 SportsGuy

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:48 AM

I get your argument, but there are problems with the ranking of Lamar 7th, both in the now and 5 years from now.
There is no way, that someone like Rodgers should be ranked ahead of Lamar in any ranking


I disagree about Rodgers. I think it’s a pretty ridiculous comment that there is “no way” one of the greatest QBs ever should be ranked ahead of him. There are plenty of reasons, even if you personally don’t agree with them.

The only players I definitely rank ahead of Jackson, whether it’s now or 5-10 years from now, are Mahomes and Wilson. Right now, Watson is also ahead of Jackson for me but it’s close.

After that, I can see arguments on each side for multiple players, whether it’s the now argument or long term argument.

I think a lot of these conversations end if/when Lamar shows better on the throws he is trying to improve on and wins in January. He needs to prove those things..and I think he will.

#89 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 09:48 AM

Ugh these ranking discussions are so boring. Can we start to get actual training camp reports so we have something to talk about. 


Lamar won a unanimous MVP, something only one QB has ever done. If he has a season next year as good as he did last year, he will be in position to do it again, if he improves throwing deep and maintains the throwing ability we saw last year, it won't even be close. We all agree, the potential is there and there are reasonable questions on both sides as to whether he can take a big step forward on his throwing or if he will regress in his running. 

 

This is no fault of anyone here, but geez, no one's opinion on this will change until the season starts. But there is literally nothing else to talk about. But no one is changing their mind without seeing him throw a ball or something happen. 



#90 Mike B

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 11:03 AM

I disagree about Rodgers. I think it’s a pretty ridiculous comment that there is “no way” one of the greatest QBs ever should be ranked ahead of him. There are plenty of reasons, even if you personally don’t agree with them.

The only players I definitely rank ahead of Jackson, whether it’s now or 5-10 years from now, are Mahomes and Wilson. Right now, Watson is also ahead of Jackson for me but it’s close.

After that, I can see arguments on each side for multiple players, whether it’s the now argument or long term argument.

I think a lot of these conversations end if/when Lamar shows better on the throws he is trying to improve on and wins in January. He needs to prove those things..and I think he will.

Unless, you are considering past greatness, there IMO is no way you should rate Rodgers ahead of Lamar now and certainly not in the 5-10 years, you mentioned.

 

I do think it is possible that Rodgers uses the perceived sliight from the Packers and has one last great year, but again IMO, he should not be ranked ahead of Lamar now.


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#91 SportsGuy

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 11:30 AM

Unless, you are considering past greatness, there IMO is no way you should rate Rodgers ahead of Lamar now and certainly not in the 5-10 years, you mentioned.

I do think it is possible that Rodgers uses the perceived sliight from the Packers and has one last great year, but again IMO, he should not be ranked ahead of Lamar now.

https://twitter.com/...6430457867?s=21

And there is a difference between you not thinking he should be ranked ahead of Lamar and “no way” he should be.

#92 Slidemaster

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 02:15 PM

https://twitter.com/...6430457867?s=21

And there is a difference between you not thinking he should be ranked ahead of Lamar and “no way” he should be.


Two arbitrary cherry-picked statistics prove little.

Nobody in NFL history ever had a season that even approached what Lamar did last year. Anyone can make these kinds of arguments.

#93 Mike B

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 04:03 PM

https://twitter.com/...6430457867?s=21

And there is a difference between you not thinking he should be ranked ahead of Lamar and “no way” he should be.

Trying to simplifying things.

 

Simple question.  Ignoring past greatness, which means nothing to the argument  Would you rather have Rodgers, Brees, or Brady then Lamar as your QB, right now?  


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#94 SportsGuy

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 06:32 PM

Trying to simplifying things.
 
Simple question.  Ignoring past greatness, which means nothing to the argument  Would you rather have Rodgers, Brees, or Brady then Lamar as your QB, right now?  


Well a lot of that has to do with the offense and team around them.

I probably lean Lamar but it’s really close and I’m not sure I take Lamar over any of them, right now, if it was a win one game, our score the Chiefs type scenario.

But that’s not my point here. My point is you said “no way” Rodgers should be ahead of him. No way means there is nothing that says Rodgers is better right now. I think that’s ridiculous. Of course there is. That doesn’t mean what you would favor Rodgers over Lamar is enough to choose him over Lamar..it just means that an argument exists. You are essentially saying thaT argument doesn’t exist.

I think that’s wrong.

#95 Mike B

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 08:26 PM

Well a lot of that has to do with the offense and team around them.

I probably lean Lamar but it’s really close and I’m not sure I take Lamar over any of them, right now, if it was a win one game, our score the Chiefs type scenario.

But that’s not my point here. My point is you said “no way” Rodgers should be ahead of him. No way means there is nothing that says Rodgers is better right now. I think that’s ridiculous. Of course there is. That doesn’t mean what you would favor Rodgers over Lamar is enough to choose him over Lamar..it just means that an argument exists. You are essentially saying thaT argument doesn’t exist.

I think that’s wrong.

We will agree to disagree.  IMO, the style of offense means nothing, because every coach should put their QB in the best system for them to succeed.  I do not think any of the 3 QB's I mentioned matched Lamar last year.


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#96 mweb08

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 10:03 PM

Unless, you are considering past greatness, there IMO is no way you should rate Rodgers ahead of Lamar now and certainly not in the 5-10 years, you mentioned.

I do think it is possible that Rodgers uses the perceived sliight from the Packers and has one last great year, but again IMO, he should not be ranked ahead of Lamar now.


You're right. Rodgers is past his prime and you have to be living in the past and/or huge Lamar skeptic to think Rodgers should currently rank ahead of him.

Maybe Rodgers will return to elite status, but he hasn't been elite recently.

#97 SportsGuy

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Posted 05 August 2020 - 10:24 PM

We will agree to disagree.  IMO, the style of offense means nothing, because every coach should put their QB in the best system for them to succeed.  I do not think any of the 3 QB's I mentioned matched Lamar last year.


It does matter.

If you put Lamar on the Saints, do I think he would do as well as Brees? No I don’t.

So when you ask me which QB would I prefer out of that group, that’s why I ask that question.

But you are right, Lamar had the better year in 2019 out of those guys. No doubt there.

Let me ask you this...do you think Lamar would thrive in any offense in this league?

#98 Slidemaster

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Posted Yesterday, 10:43 AM

It does matter.

If you put Lamar on the Saints, do I think he would do as well as Brees? No I don’t.

So when you ask me which QB would I prefer out of that group, that’s why I ask that question.

But you are right, Lamar had the better year in 2019 out of those guys. No doubt there.

Let me ask you this...do you think Lamar would thrive in any offense in this league?


Do you think Brees would do as well on the Ravens? Would any other QB in the league?

The Ravens offense is different than every other franchise because they have a player that can do things nobody else in the league can do.

#99 SportsGuy

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Posted Yesterday, 06:57 PM

Do you think Brees would do as well on the Ravens? Would any other QB in the league?

The Ravens offense is different than every other franchise because they have a player that can do things nobody else in the league can do.

100%...but isn't that the point of all of this though?

 

The Ravens have to run a totally different offense to get the most out of him.  We agree that they should and that that is smart football, great coaching, etc...

 

But there are a lot of QBs in this league that can fit into many offenses and still succeed.

 

Teams don't have to do something unique with them.  They can run more traditional offenses and things like that.  

 

I think that is the point people are making and I think its a fair point to make.  It doesn't mean they are right or that its the standard of figuring this question out but it is a worthy addition to the discussion.






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