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Where does Lamar rank right now?


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#21 cprenegade

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 06:53 PM

I can't rank Lamar Jackson on these lists for the simple fact that there is basically only one year of data on which to judge him.  That year is exceptional, but there are a lot of QBs throughout history that had one fantastic season never to duplicate it again.  After Baker Mayfield's first year people had him listed as a potential top 5 QB in the league.  That crashed big time last year.  Mahomes has two years and a SB win.  Wilson has a lot more years and a SB win.  I've got to see more than one season from any QB before I can put him in top.  If he puts up similar numbers this year and leads the Ravens deep into the playoffs, I would definitely have him neck and neck with Mahomes.  But it has to be done first.  I'm not knocking him, just saying I need to see at least a little more longevity from anyone before grading that person among the top at his position.   



#22 SportsGuy

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 07:25 PM

I think Watson is excellent. I just think he's clearly inferior to Lamar. That says a lot more about Lamar than it does Watson.

Gabe, this is what I was talking about.

“Clearly inferior” is just a horrible take imo.

Like, Trubisky is clearly inferior to Mahomes. Clearly inferior suggests they aren’t close and that’s just wrong.



#23 Mackus

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 07:30 PM

Gabe, this is what I was talking about.

“Clearly inferior” is just a horrible take imo.

Like, Trubisky is clearly inferior to Mahomes. Clearly inferior suggests they aren’t close and that’s just wrong.

I'm not saying clearly inferior to imply that they aren't close or that it's a massive difference. Just that I think there is no doubt that Lamar is better. It's a clear distinction.

I think Lamar is similarly clearly behind Mahomes.

#24 SportsGuy

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 07:33 PM

I'm not saying clearly inferior to imply that they aren't close or that it's a massive difference. Just that I think there is no doubt that Lamar is better. It's a clear distinction.

I think Lamar is similarly clearly behind Mahomes.


The gap between Mahomes and Lamar is much wider than any gap between Lamar and Watson..not that there actually is a gap.

I just think it’s a very homer take to say it’s clear.

#25 Mackus

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 08:46 PM

The gap between Mahomes and Lamar is much wider than any gap between Lamar and Watson..not that there actually is a gap.

I just think it’s a very homer take to say it’s clear.

I think the only possible way anyone can say it isn't clear that Lamar is better is if they are putting way more fear of a Lamar injury into their evaluation than I think is reasonable.

I think Watson is excellent. I just think it's definitive to me that Lamar is better. By how much he's better I make no claim to, just that I'm sure of the order.

#26 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:02 PM

Again good QB but shouldn't be in these discussions with Lamar, Maholmes and Wilson. Essentially all the things I noted that Lamar does well from the pocket Watson is somewhere between below avg-slightly above. He's got a lot of backyard QB in him and had arguably the best WR in the league to target as his first read. To me he's in a tier with guys like Wentz and Prescott. Thats far from a diss but nobody is throwing them in the mix with those top tier guys.

#27 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:15 PM

To put it another way, I think we all understand Maholmes greatness. Lamar was clearly the catalyst for an offense that just set the NFL rushing record and scored 500 points. 500 points is very rare. He also led the league in TD passes playing 15 games. He's the ultimate weapon. He scares the crap out of everyone who plays him. No QB other than Maholmes is scaring the crap out of you like that.

#28 Don Olsen

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 10:08 PM

The debate between Watson and Jackson may hinge on Watson sans Hopkins.  Hopkins is a one man wrecking crew in the passing game that forces teams to play hat on hat with every other offensive weapon.  Watson had a crutch that could beat 90% of the corners on any play, and get open with double teams. Along with knowing he had other options in isolation.  Those types of play-makers and those match ups make a QBs life more than easy, it makes it successful.

 

I like Brown, I like Andrews, but neither are at a Hopkins level at this stage of their careers.

 

If Watson can ball this season with Fuller, Cootee, and Stills, hang him above Jackson....BUT don't pass out the anointing oil until you see if he can carry the offense as the man.

 

Jackson is the straw that stirs the drink and has success without top shelf support.  If he takes that next step and Brown turns into his cousin on the field, we might have a different player at the top of the QB pantheon in the short, and long term.


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#29 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 12:23 AM

The gap between Mahomes and Lamar is much wider than any gap between Lamar and Watson..not that there actually is a gap.

I just think it’s a very homer take to say it’s clear.


Lamar just had one of the best seasons we have ever seen from the position. I don't think it's homerism to think he is clearly better than Watson, and that is nothing against Watson. He just hasn't been as good as Lamar.
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#30 Ricker Says

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 08:29 AM

I think Watson gets punished a bit unfairly for the incompetence of his Head Coach/GM O'Brien, who is in way over his head. Watson was the better player in College, and he's got all the tools in the league. Lamar is in a far better organization. Texans are a sort of purgatory IMO. Good enough to dance in that division, but a severe lack of tools around him, especially now without Hopkins. That said, yes, I'm a homer - I'd take Lamar to start a new team over Watson all day. I love the chip on his shoulder. I love how much better he got year 2. He wants to prove something, and the Ravens seem poised to help him do just that. (Not that he already hasn't)


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#31 SportsGuy

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 08:34 AM

Yea for all the talk about Hopkins, the OLine in Houston has been brutal and the organization is really unstable. BOB is terrible.

#32 Ricker Says

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 08:42 AM

It's funny how they've flipped circumstances. I watched a good chunk of the Louisville @ Clemson game from (I believe 2016) on ESPN the other day, and Lamar was great, especially after the first drive, but just didn't have the weapons around him Watson did. Clemson won that game and Watson was great, but Lamar was just as much the player Watson was but with limited talent. Now it's the reverse. 


@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#33 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 09:09 AM


I think Watson gets punished a bit unfairly for the incompetence of his Head Coach/GM O'Brien, who is in way over his head. Watson was the better player in College, and he's got all the tools in the league. Lamar is in a far better organization. Texans are a sort of purgatory IMO. Good enough to dance in that division, but a severe lack of tools around him, especially now without Hopkins. That said, yes, I'm a homer - I'd take Lamar to start a new team over Watson all day. I love the chip on his shoulder. I love how much better he got year 2. He wants to prove something, and the Ravens seem poised to help him do just that. (Not that he already hasn't)

BOB is an incompetent GM. Hes not an incompetent coach. Nor has Watson had incompetent coaches around him in Hou. They actually were first, before the Ravens, to transition on the fly and build a good portion of their offense to Watson's strengths.

#34 SportsGuy

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 09:20 AM

I also think if you put both players in a more traditional offense that Watson would outperform Lamar.

#35 Ricker Says

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 09:20 AM

I don't like him as a coach either. Loses way to many big games, and makes poor decisions in those games. I don't watch every Texans game, so perhaps I'm wrong there. 


@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#36 SportsGuy

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 06:39 AM

https://twitter.com/...3455408128?s=21

#37 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 07:02 AM

Kid works hard and feeds off the haters. Keep it coming.
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#38 Slidemaster

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 08:32 PM

I also think if you put both players in a more traditional offense that Watson would outperform Lamar.


Who cares about that?

If you put Brees in the Ravens offense he wouldn't do what Lamar does.

Every system is tailored around their QB. It minimizes Lamar's ability to say he is a product of a system. He is the system.

#39 SportsGuy

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 09:01 PM

Who cares about that?
If you put Brees in the Ravens offense he wouldn't do what Lamar does.
Every system is tailored around their QB. It minimizes Lamar's ability to say he is a product of a system. He is the system.


I mean, the Brees argument is a poor one because only one QB in the league can do it.

That being said, when you are asking this type of question, you are evaluating skill talent across the board.

When it’s said that Watson, for example, could be more successful in more offenses, that speaks to him being a better passer and being able to make all throws. That is what people are saying when they say that.

So, if you believe that Watson can do those things, you rate him as the better QB.

#40 Mike B

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Posted 18 July 2020 - 09:45 PM

The argument on how Lamar would do in a traditional offense, has no merit to me.  Every good coach, puts a player in the system that suits them best.  The Ravens have done that and Lamar performed brilliantly.    Commentators, qualifying that are missing the point, or are purposely not seeing it.  IMO, he is #2 behind Mahomes.


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