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Mahomes gets 10 year extension


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#41 SportsGuy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 07:59 AM

Also have to consider what an average quarterback costs. Tannehill is the 10th highest paid guy and he'll make $29.75M next year. 17 guys make $25M or more and that's gonna keep going up.
Would you rather have Lamar/Mahomes or Tannehill and $12-15M in cap space?
You can't compare it to rookie contracts unless you're gonna start treating QBs like RBs which will never happen.
Having a top QB is still a bargain. They may take up 20-25% of your cap but I think they are much more than that in terms of what it takes for a championship roster construction.


There is no doubt about this...as long as the QB is an elite guy.

If they are even just very good (say Dak), it’s not worth it imo.

#42 Mike B

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 10:40 AM

Also have to consider what an average quarterback costs. Tannehill is the 10th highest paid guy and he'll make $29.75M next year. 17 guys make $25M or more and that's gonna keep going up.

Would you rather have Lamar/Mahomes or Tannehill and $12-15M in cap space?

You can't compare it to rookie contracts unless you're gonna start treating QBs like RBs which will never happen.

Having a top QB is still a bargain. They may take up 20-25% of your cap but I think they are much more than that in terms of what it takes for a championship roster construction.

No doubt any franchise, needs to keep their elite QB, but after the deal is done and the contract is inked, the GM, has to sit back and figure out how to reduce cost in other spots.  It is a great think to have a Mahomes, Jackson, Wilson etc. but it comes with a cost.

 

It will never happen, but I have always thought a team should have one player, QB, that is not counted against the cap.


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#43 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 10:52 AM

Would you rather have Lamar/Mahomes or Tannehill and $12-15M in cap space?

 

$15 mill used the right way for the right players actually could go a really long way. 

 

I talked with Gabe about this contract on recording our podcast last night, which will be going up soon, but that $12 -15 mill is how teams like the Pats added guys like Moss or even Brown last year. Kept teams together. That $2-3 mill more that you can pay other guys the market rate and keep you elite QB can actually be stretched a long way. 

 

I also think Tannehill is not a guy I'd want, but say Wentz or Dak might be a guy I would want (I'm not sure either of them is it, just using as an example). But Tannehill plus keeping Conklin and being able to sign Henry long-term rather than tag, could be a pretty big deal. You could get Henry on something that works for both of you but locks him up for prime years, you keep a key part of your line and you have the same OL play. And maybe you have enough extra cap space to sign Logan Ryan back or make another splash if you need to...

 

I'm very torn on if it's something that really can work. But that being said, I'd want the Ravens to sign Mahomes to the same deal hands down. It's too hard to resist. And I would argue the way Mahomes deal is structured is actually exactly what the Ravens should do. In 5 years, you'll have some idea if he can hold up for 8 years.  I think this is a blueprint for the Ravens and Lamar, especially if they go on to win the Super Bowl this year and follow Mahomes path im that sense. 



#44 SportsGuy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 10:58 AM

I have said it before but the Chiefs, barring any injury to Mahomes, will likely have a first round bye in almost, if not every year, year Mahomes is there.

Over the next decade, they will probably average 12-13 regular season wins every year.

He’s worth every penny he gets.

#45 Ricker Says

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 11:10 AM

I have said it before but the Chiefs, barring any injury to Mahomes, will likely have a first round bye in almost, if not every year, year Mahomes is there.

Over the next decade, they will probably average 12-13 regular season wins every year.

He’s worth every penny he gets.

He's worth it. But will he have an OLine and receivers when the cap hit gets that ridiculous? First round bye every year is far from a sure thing.
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#46 SportsGuy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 11:24 AM

He's worth it. But will he have an OLine and receivers when the cap hit gets that ridiculous? First round bye every year is far from a sure thing.


Sure..because the Chiefs will not only draft well but have proven they will take on guys with checkered pasts. Personally, I find it funny how they are now being praised for the Hill drafting and contract when it wasn’t long ago people wanted him out of the league.

Why is that important? Because you can get those guys for less nowadays.

Also, the cap is going to keep rising. There may be a temporary lull in it because of covid but that will be made up and then some.

They will have plenty of money.

In other words, if you are smart, you can work around things and when you have an elite QB, he makes everything around him better even if those people are just mediocre somewhere else.

#47 JeremyStrain

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:11 PM

If I were the Ravens I'd call Lamar and offer him the same deal tomorrow.

 

I know a lot of his value is going to be tied to his ability to run as well as pass, but the market for QB is going to take a big jump here, and Mahomes deal is surprisingly team friendly once you get into the details.


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#48 Slidemaster

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:13 PM

Not from the Ravens. I would be shocked if DeCosta, from the school of Ozzie, spent that kind of money on any one position. Even an MVP QB.

Oh I think they would.

I don't think he will take less. The bar has been set. Every QB wanta to be the highest paid. There is pressure from the player's union also to keep raising the price of contracts.

Someone is going to give him that money unless his numbers dip. If he wins a ring before they begin to negotiate it's a virtual lock.

#49 Ricker Says

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:17 PM

Sure..because the Chiefs will not only draft well but have proven they will take on guys with checkered pasts. Personally, I find it funny how they are now being praised for the Hill drafting and contract when it wasn’t long ago people wanted him out of the league.

Why is that important? Because you can get those guys for less nowadays.

Also, the cap is going to keep rising. There may be a temporary lull in it because of covid but that will be made up and then some.

They will have plenty of money.

In other words, if you are smart, you can work around things and when you have an elite QB, he makes everything around him better even if those people are just mediocre somewhere else.

We'll see. I think it's far from a sure thing. I love Mahomes btw. No one more deserving.
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#50 SportsGuy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:36 PM

We'll see. I think it's far from a sure thing. I love Mahomes btw. No one more deserving.


It’s not a definite but if he stays healthy, it’s as close to a lock as you will see.

#51 SportsGuy

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:38 PM

I think Lamar will get more guaranteed money..he will get slightly less per year and won’t approach 10 years.

OTOH, this isn’t really a 10 year deal either.

#52 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:58 PM

The only counter I can think of in all of this is that it seemed like Aaron Rodgers was the guy that should always have the one seed and be elite and win a bunch of SB bowls before. Mahomes is really good but I don't think he's transcendent above some of the other elite talents like Brady, Manning, Rodgers. There may not be any one else in that tier and only Brady reached the level we're talking about and did it with reduced cap numbers and the greatest coach in the NFL at the time (and cheating). 


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#53 Don Olsen

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 01:25 PM

The Mahomes deal is severely back loaded with his numbers only slightly higher than Wentz and Goff got and total guaranteed is within a percentage of the cap.

 

I suspect Jackson to come in around 14.5% of the cap and the figure will be balanced considering that DeCosta does not like to pay Peter by robbing Paul.

 

The Ravens front office has done a tremendous job resetting the cap.  Those highest on the cap right now are off the books in two years, outside of those getting new deals.  I believe the team is prepped for the next TV contract nicely and will be able to pick the 7-8 cornerstones to build around, all under 28 at the moment.  It does not change the philosophy to draft well, retain your own, and splash for the one or two holes for a championship run.


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#54 SportsGuy

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 07:13 AM

The only counter I can think of in all of this is that it seemed like Aaron Rodgers was the guy that should always have the one seed and be elite and win a bunch of SB bowls before. Mahomes is really good but I don't think he's transcendent above some of the other elite talents like Brady, Manning, Rodgers. There may not be any one else in that tier and only Brady reached the level we're talking about and did it with reduced cap numbers and the greatest coach in the NFL at the time (and cheating). 


This is a good argument and it should be noted that GB is an excellent drafting team.

Now, I will say that Rodgers has had injuries that could have derailed some longer playoff runs and, outside of drafting well, his GMs have seemingly not done the best job of giving him weapons, especially a run game.

I don’t know that we can say that’s an issue in KC but we’ll see.

Either way, it’s certainly a good argument.

#55 Steve55

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 07:54 AM

Now seeing all the stories coming out about this deal its not what it seems. 1st off, only a $10 mil signing bonus. All other after yr 3 are year to year. Year 6 is where it get renegotiated where the bonus that year is $50 mil. The $140 mil is for injury only. For all the wow, $45 mil a year crowd, once you add in the next 2 yrs + 10 of this contract, the avg comes out under 40. KC is betting on the cap increasing greatly to keep a decent team around him. As has been said, yes he is a great player, but you need to see how his health continues. He has already dislocated his knee. It could become a common occurrence.

 

Now to the other players. Watson & Dak don't want long term deals the teams do. They only want 4 yr deals. Jackson may want the same. I also saw there may be an opt out clause after 5 yrs for Mahomes in his deal



#56 ivanbalt

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 08:44 AM

This is a good argument and it should be noted that GB is an excellent drafting team.

Now, I will say that Rodgers has had injuries that could have derailed some longer playoff runs and, outside of drafting well, his GMs have seemingly not done the best job of giving him weapons, especially a run game.

I don’t know that we can say that’s an issue in KC but we’ll see.

Either way, it’s certainly a good argument.

 

There's also divisional competition to consider.  Brady/NE very rarely faced competition in the pathetic AFC East over a 20 year period.  AFC West is pretty down right now, but that could definitely change over the life of the contract.



#57 SportsGuy

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 08:56 AM

There's also divisional competition to consider. Brady/NE very rarely faced competition in the pathetic AFC East over a 20 year period. AFC West is pretty down right now, but that could definitely change over the life of the contract.


I considered that. I don’t think the AFC West is doormat and it won’t be one either.

But I also don’t know that we see another doormat division for a while either. In other words, I think most teams will be on the same playing field when it comes to that and KC will be able to overcome that better than most, if not everyone, year in and year out.

#58 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:32 AM

Like I said on the podcast, this is the type of deal, no matter what, if you can get Lamar on it, that you have to sign. I guess the only thought is, can you get a team to send you a ton of value for a guy like Lamar. 

 

What if you could get 4+ 1st round picks worth of value in a trade? And one of those picks let's say is a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft. For example last year, the Redskins might be willing to trade the pick they ahd for Young, and 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and Williams to you for Lamar. Do you do it? 

 

So think about it trade value as much as Tannehill + $15 mill vs Lamar. 

 

Again, I don't see how a franchise could be the one to trade a guy away. But there is some kind of value there, right? 



#59 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:41 AM

Like I said on the podcast, this is the type of deal, no matter what, if you can get Lamar on it, that you have to sign. I guess the only thought is, can you get a team to send you a ton of value for a guy like Lamar. 

 

What if you could get 4+ 1st round picks worth of value in a trade? And one of those picks let's say is a top 5 pick in the upcoming draft. For example last year, the Redskins might be willing to trade the pick they ahd for Young, and 2 1sts, 2 2nds, and Williams to you for Lamar. Do you do it? 

 

So think about it trade value as much as Tannehill + $15 mill vs Lamar. 

 

Again, I don't see how a franchise could be the one to trade a guy away. But there is some kind of value there, right? 


I wanted the Ravens to draft Lamar. 
I thought he'd be productive.  Didn't expect the Y2 MVP jump.
Did think you could build a team around him on his initial contract, that could be a regular contender. 

I'm not overly excited by the idea of paying him (or frankly anyone not named Mahomes) huge QB money.
Part of me would rather have the money to pay the rest of the roster... acquire picks for Lamar, and take chances you can find another QB in the draft.  Someone that also costs nothing, and can be productive.... but not someone you are asking to play at a MVP level either. 

That said... if the Ravens announce they've signed Lamar to a contract similar to Mahomes, I wouldn't complain at all. 
He's done everything you could ever imagine, he's young, he's exceptionally talented, hard-working, a leader.....  and the defending MVP. 

The Ravens have a great chance to win the Lombardi this year, and he's the primary reason why.


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#60 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:45 AM

So if you could get a Chase Young equivalent and 3 1sts in 2 years for Lamar, do you take that? 






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