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Ravens sign Wolfe


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#41 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 01:48 PM

https://twitter.com/...0102615041?s=21

I would guess that Jeff has spoken with officials within the organization.

It’s obvious the organization had a preference for Brockers and I doubt they just wanted him that much more simply because of health.

Combine results from 7-8 years ago are completely meaningless right now.

Wear and tear, injuries, etc...take tolls on players differently.
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#42 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 01:50 PM

https://twitter.com/...0102615041?s=21

I would guess that Jeff has spoken with officials within the organization.

It’s obvious the organization had a preference for Brockers and I doubt they just wanted him that much more simply because of health.

Combine results from 7-8 years ago are completely meaningless right now.

Wear and tear, injuries, etc...take tolls on players differently.

Well you can't just come on a message board and make things up without being called out for it. That's all.


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#43 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 01:57 PM

Well you can't just come on a message board and make things up without being called out for it. That's all.


That’s fine but you should use relevant info and combine results from years ago don’t qualify as that.

As for the PFF grading, again, 4+ years ago means nothing.

It’s the last 2-3 years that mean something, especially in football.

Still, Wolfe has graded a little better overall than I thought but he also did it in 8 fewer games..that could have kept him fresher. His sampling of 16+ games seasons aren’t high and in 2 of those 3 seasons his grades were well under 70 although the latest one was pretty good.
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#44 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 02:11 PM

That’s fine but you should use relevant info and combine results from years ago don’t qualify as that.

As for the PFF grading, again, 4+ years ago means nothing.

It’s the last 2-3 years that mean something, especially in football.

Still, Wolfe has graded a little better overall than I thought but he also did it in 8 fewer games..that could have kept him fresher. His sampling of 16+ games seasons aren’t high and in 2 of those 3 seasons his grades were well under 70 although the latest one was pretty good.

The last 4 years they have both graded out strongly. Brockers has been the better run defender and Wolfe has been a better pass-rusher.

 

In terms of snaps they have been eerily similar over the course of their careers. Brockers has played a total of 9 more snaps over 8 seasons.

 

Durability with Wolfe is an issue, it's probably the main reason why the Ravens were able to sign him when they did and for what they did, but he has played at least 450 snaps in every season.

 

In the end I think having $3M guaranteed for a player that has a higher ceiling is a better situation than $20M guaranteed for a player that I think does not have the upside. 


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#45 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 02:13 PM

Well I side with the Ravens here who clearly disagree with you but I’m glad they found a suitable replacement at a small risk and no long term issues.
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#46 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 02:26 PM

Well I side with the Ravens here who clearly disagree with you but I’m glad they found a suitable replacement at a small risk and no long term issues.

lol, the I side with the Ravens thing only works if you are consistent about it


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#47 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 02:58 PM

lol, the I side with the Ravens thing only works if you are consistent about it


Which I am but thanks.

You will never 100% agree with everything but none of us have seen these guys play that much and the Ravens have, so I side with them.
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#48 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 03:09 PM

Which I am but thanks.

You will never 100% agree with everything but none of us have seen these guys play that much and the Ravens have, so I side with them.

 

Haha, you are not. You're vocally critical of various Ravens things the Ravens do. You weren't a fan of the Thomas signing because you thought he was an injury risk as the most recent example. 

 

You PANNED the Brandon Williams signing. And then ironically, were super pro-Brockers when they actually gave Brockers $8 million more guaranteed than they gave Williams before extensions.

 

You hated the Flacco extension, and think the Ravens should have let him walk post-Super Bowl. 

 

You thought the Ravens were wrong when they didn't include the 3rd round pick to move up and draft Ramsey or Elliott over Stanley. And regularly think they should use draft capital to move up for guys rather than move back. 

 

I could easily go back and find other examples of you criticizing the Ravens. 

 

I'm not saying you don't trust them to be right but you're very openly critical when you don't agree. You just happen to agree here. 



#49 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 04:46 PM

Haha, you are not. You're vocally critical of various Ravens things the Ravens do. You weren't a fan of the Thomas signing because you thought he was an injury risk as the most recent example.

You PANNED the Brandon Williams signing. And then ironically, were super pro-Brockers when they actually gave Brockers $8 million more guaranteed than they gave Williams before extensions.

You hated the Flacco extension, and think the Ravens should have let him walk post-Super Bowl.

You thought the Ravens were wrong when they didn't include the 3rd round pick to move up and draft Ramsey or Elliott over Stanley. And regularly think they should use draft capital to move up for guys rather than move back.

I could easily go back and find other examples of you criticizing the Ravens.

I'm not saying you don't trust them to be right but you're very openly critical when you don't agree. You just happen to agree here.

A lot of this is flat out wrong or not taken into proper context but that’s just how you formulate every conversation with me, so whatever.

And you will never agree with every single move, which I said.

But I give them the benefit of the doubt on most things, especially things involving players I never see.
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#50 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:25 PM


 things involving players I never see.

Maybe it's not such a great idea to have super strong opinions on things you admit that you know nothing about.


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#51 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:31 PM

Maybe it's not such a great idea to have super strong opinions on things you admit that you know nothing about.

I’m good but thanks for putting your 2 cents in.

I’m doubting you have put much, if any time, watching these guys either.
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#52 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:37 PM

I’m good but thanks for putting your 2 cents in.

I’m doubting you have put much, if any time, watching these guys either.

Well you would be wrong. Unlike you, I am very familiar with both players. I watch a lot the NFL that isn't the Ravens and these are both players that I have followed since they were drafted because they were prospects I thought the Ravens would be interested in.


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#53 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:39 PM

So you have watched them? Watched the all 22 on them?

You have broken them down over the last year or 2?

Neither of these guys are guys the camera will key in on for much more than a few plays.
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#54 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:42 PM

The last 4 years they have both graded out strongly. Brockers has been the better run defender and Wolfe has been a better pass-rusher.

In terms of snaps they have been eerily similar over the course of their careers. Brockers has played a total of 9 more snaps over 8 seasons.


The comparative snap count is interesting...had not seen that elsewhere.

#55 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:43 PM

So you have watched them? Watched the all 22 on them?

You have broken them down over the last year or 2?

Neither of these guys are guys the camera will key in on for much more than a few plays.

I don't need to study every single play they have made for 8 seasons to be familiar with what they can and cannot do and how they would fit in the Ravens defense.
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#56 BSLRobShields

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:45 PM

I don't need to study every single play they have made for 8 seasons to be familiar with what they can and cannot do and how they would fit in the Ravens defense.



Well they are both excellent fits, no doubt there.

And we can easily figure out what they each can do by looking at stats and reading the general analysis that exists for each player out there.

But there is more to it than that in terms of comparing the 2 players.
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#57 Mike B

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:47 PM

God, do we have to get sports back soon.


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#58 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 08:57 PM

Well they are both excellent fits, no doubt there.

And we can easily figure out what they each can do by looking at stats and reading the general analysis that exists for each player out there.

But there is more to it than that in terms of comparing the 2 players.

"I don't know what I am talking about so clearly you don't either" isn't a good argument.


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#59 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 09:06 PM

This actually not even remotely true. They have both graded out pretty equally. We can do some direct comps because they entered the league the same season:


Brockers Wolfe
2012: 61.9 64.7
2013: 64.1 54.8
2014: 69.7 66.6
2015: 68.3 86.4
2016: 79.6 70.2
2017: 75.9 67.5
2018: 64.4 75.3
2019: 74.6 68.5
AVG: 69.8 69.3

Brockers is also not more athletic, combine testing for both:

Wolfe:

Measurable/ Measurement/ %tile

Height 6' 5" 89 Weight 295 lbs 23 Arm Length 33¼" 49 Hand Size 10¾" 92 40 Yard Dash 5.01s 71 Vertical Jump 33" 87 Broad Jump 108" 66 3-Cone Drill 7.26s 92 20 Yard Shuttle 4.44s 84 Bench Press 33 reps 85

Brockers:

Measurable/ Measurement/ %tile

Height 6' 6" 96 Weight 322 lbs 87 Arm Length 35" 95 Hand Size 9⅛" 5 40 Yard Dash 5.36s 8 Vertical Jump 26" 13 Broad Jump 105" 49 3-Cone Drill 7.46s 73 20 Yard Shuttle 4.81s 15 Bench Press 19 reps 5

Brockers is bigger and has longer arms, not nearly as explosive or agile compared to Wolfe.


The measurables are interesting...but I think you'd need more recent info to have value.

And you've shown here that for their careers they've graded out similarly...but Brockers graded out higher 3 of the last 4 yrs.

Given the contract the Ravens gave both...given that the Ravens ran to Brockers first...doesn't that indicate the Ravens preferred Brockers by a significant amount?

#60 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 29 March 2020 - 09:15 PM

The measurables are interesting...but I think you'd need more recent info to have value.

And you've shown here that for their careers they've graded out similarly...but Brockers graded out higher 3 of the last 4 yrs.

Given the contract the Ravens gave both...given that the Ravens ran to Brockers first...doesn't that indicate the Ravens preferred Brockers by a significant amount?

Of course it indicates that the Ravens preferred Brockers.

 

That doesn't mean it was a smart move to "sign" Brockers to begin with, and it certainly doesn't justify Rob's argument that Brockers would have been a much better addition simply because it was the original plan.

 

I said from the start that I thought they overpaid for Brockers and that he was a marginal upgrade from Pierce. The one major asset being he was a more versatile defender than Pierce.

 

I think the Ravens lucked out here, getting out of what I thought was a bad contract and into a much more attractive 1 year deal with little guaranteed money.


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