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EDIT: Ravens Lose Brockers


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#41 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:26 AM

I’d rather have a good edge rusher. Not sure how good Van Noy is.

I also prefer to have the more productive guy and like the player who can pressure up the middle.

On top of that, you can still trade Judon and add edge pieces elsewhere.

They got the player they preferred and the Ravens always deserve the benefit of the doubt on that.

How do you know they got the player they preferred? That's a giant assumption. 

 

The more productive guy would be Van Noy by a wide margin, unless you are comparing him to Judon in which case they are fairly similar.

 

You can still trade Judon, but as the market thins that gets less and less likely. Obviously still a few options out there, but it's hard to see the Ravens having the flexibility to add a top of the market guy like Clowney so we are looking at Dante Fowler/Robert Quinn...after that it gets pretty thin.


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#42 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:27 AM

I like Brockers, for the record. Just not sure if he represents right player, right price.

 

Also not sure he's a significant upgrade over Pierce for those lauding this as fixing our front seven. 

I think he's a litte more versatile than Pierce...might end up being a little cheaper too. We'll see about that. I agree with what you are saying though.


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#43 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:33 AM

Oops there goes Robert Quinn to the Bears. Hard to see the Ravens not hanging onto Judon at this point.


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#44 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:55 AM

I like Brockers, for the record. Just not sure if he represents right player, right price.

Also not sure he's a significant upgrade over Pierce for those lauding this as fixing our front seven.

Brockers is probably going to be cheaper, hes more versatile, and maybe most importantly to the Ravens he's reliable. The Ravens had to have soured on Pierce some after he came into training camp out of shape and proceeded to have a dip in production throughout the year.

#45 Hooded Viper

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 11:59 AM

I would be incredibly shocked to see Judon traded at this point.  My guess is they are waiting on the Clowney signing to determine a market value and then once established a long term deal will be completed.  


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#46 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 12:52 PM

I think it is more likely that they get a deal done with Judon, than trade him.  

 

I do think it is possible though that the Ravens may wait, to see how high the return for Judon could get as free agency slows down, and players are off the market.


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#47 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 12:54 PM

Would have wanted a deal with Littleton for 3/36 over 3/30 for Brockers. 


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#48 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 12:58 PM

Would have wanted a deal with Littleton for 3/36 over 3/30 for Brockers. 

It is more the structure than the actual dollar amount of the deal.

 

Brockers is a good player and probably an upgrade over Pierce.  


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#49 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 01:03 PM

Looks like the Littleton details changed, it's $36 guaranteed, looking like $12 mill per year. So probably 4-5 years, so I do like that a lot less, then. 

 

Though Brockers $21 mill guranateed strikes me as high, too. 


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#50 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 01:48 PM

Looks like the Littleton details changed, it's $36 guaranteed, looking like $12 mill per year. So probably 4-5 years, so I do like that a lot less, then. 

 

Though Brockers $21 mill guranateed strikes me as high, too. 

Seems like the price of poker is going up. Doesn't the cap number rise significantly next year with the new CBA?


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#51 Don Olsen

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 01:53 PM

Looks like the Littleton details changed, it's $36 guaranteed, looking like $12 mill per year. So probably 4-5 years, so I do like that a lot less, then. 

 

Though Brockers $21 mill guaranteed strikes me as high, too. 

 

It's due in part that is 2021 salary is guaranteed; it's really a 2 year 21m deal with a 9m option in 2022 that will provide 5m in cap relief with 4m in dead cap money.

 

10m per year seems to be the going rate for second tier interior lineman on the market.


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#52 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:21 PM

How do you know they got the player they preferred? That's a giant assumption.

The more productive guy would be Van Noy by a wide margin, unless you are comparing him to Judon in which case they are fairly similar.

You can still trade Judon, but as the market thins that gets less and less likely. Obviously still a few options out there, but it's hard to see the Ravens having the flexibility to add a top of the market guy like Clowney so we are looking at Dante Fowler/Robert Quinn...after that it gets pretty thin.


Because Brockers signed first.

Had they wanted Van Noy that much, they could have gone higher.
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#53 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:23 PM

Brockers cap numbers:

https://twitter.com/...1467726850?s=21

I haven’t seen anyone reputable say the Ravens didn’t do well here. Maybe we will see some more opinions as time goes on?

I don’t have an issue with it. Fair to question if another player would be better but I would rather have Brockers, more cap space and one less year of a potential cap hit vs Van Noy.
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#54 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:35 PM

Yeah, it's about market value for him, so it's hard to say it's a bad deal without seeing the on field performance. 

 

Also, the Ravens historically have been quite good at finding good DL talent in later rounds of the draft. I'm not a huge fan of spending in FA in places where you historically have had success in drafting value players cheaper against the cap. I think that's the part that makes me not love this signing. 


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#55 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:40 PM

https://twitter.com/...5577135106?s=21
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#56 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:42 PM

Yeah, it's about market value for him, so it's hard to say it's a bad deal without seeing the on field performance. 
 
Also, the Ravens historically have been quite good at finding good DL talent in later rounds of the draft. I'm not a huge fan of spending in FA in places where you historically have had success in drafting value players cheaper against the cap. I think that's the part that makes me not love this signing. 


I don’t agree with this thought but you can say this about many positions and quite frankly, the front 7 isn’t strong and I don’t want to rely on what we have to get better.

There wasn’t one player that was drafted above the third round on the front 7 last year. More UDFAs than guys drafted in the 4th round or higher.

They had to address it.

Football is still won in the trenches.
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#57 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:53 PM


https://twitter.com/...5577135106?s=21

This is also a big part of the plan. They're saving money beyond '21 for their young studs currently on rookie contracts.

#58 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:57 PM

This is also a big part of the plan. They're saving money beyond '21 for their young studs currently on rookie contracts.


Yes...another reason they don’t want to go 4+ years.
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#59 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 02:58 PM

Brockers cap numbers:

https://twitter.com/...1467726850?s=21

I haven’t seen anyone reputable say the Ravens didn’t do well here. Maybe we will see some more opinions as time goes on?

I don’t have an issue with it. Fair to question if another player would be better but I would rather have Brockers, more cap space and one less year of a potential cap hit vs Van Noy.

It looks like a real good deal for Brockers for this coming year.    His deal looks more like 2/21, with 2021 being a 12.5 cap hit. but only 3.5 guaranteed for 22.  It seems like a good deal and as you have noted it is being recognized as a good deal by the media.  I think Pierce may get more, and I think it is very possible that Brockers is the better player.

I really was not happy with the Hurst trade, but I like this deal. 

I hope we can do something with the Judon deal to make that more flexible for this year.


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#60 Mike B

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 03:09 PM

Yeah, it's about market value for him, so it's hard to say it's a bad deal without seeing the on field performance. 

 

Also, the Ravens historically have been quite good at finding good DL talent in later rounds of the draft. I'm not a huge fan of spending in FA in places where you historically have had success in drafting value players cheaper against the cap. I think that's the part that makes me not love this signing. 

A couple of things come to mind, when reading your problems with the deal.

1.  The Ravens historically try to address as many holes as possible pre-draft and generally take which ever spots that come to them, at a good deal.

2.  I also think that the next few years are different.  We have a high profile offense that scores points and I believe we have a realistic shot to go far in the playoffs.  Hoping a lineman falls to you in round one or you find a Brandon Williams or Caslais Campbell in the mid rounds is not a good strategy for a legitimate contender.

Again, I like the acquisition so maybe that is swaying me on what they have done.


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