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BSL: Exploring Judon's Worth, Ravens Options


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#21 Biggsy

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 02:43 PM

Hard pass on Clowney. Severely overrated. He had that one tackle that one time in college and everyone has had a hard on for him since.



I don't want Clowney at the cost it will take. But this screams a post of a guy that never has taken the time to watch the guy play. He's basically an injury prone Suggs from 8 years ago.

#22 Steve55

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 04:45 PM

Clowney is going to a team with huge cap space that can afford the $22 mil a year its going to take to sign him.



#23 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 05:29 PM

I don't want Clowney at the cost it will take. But this screams a post of a guy that never has taken the time to watch the guy play. He's basically an injury prone Suggs from 8 years ago.


He hasn’t amassed many pressures for as highly touted he is. Maybe he’s a good edge setter like Suggs. But that isn’t worth the top dollar he’s gonna get.
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#24 Biggsy

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 09:39 AM

He hasn’t amassed many pressures for as highly touted he is. Maybe he’s a good edge setter like Suggs. But that isn’t worth the top dollar he’s gonna get.


Would you say Suggs at 27 was worth top dollar? Because that's what you're getting with Clowney. He is a more athletic version of Suggs. He's averaged 60 total pressure's (sacks/hurries/hits) over the past 4 seasons. In comparison, Mack, who is considered the premiere pass rusher, averaged around 70 in the same time span. Looking at the pressure stats, Clowney falls in right behind the elite pass rushers. I would say for his run stopping ability, I'd take a slightly below elite ability to rush the passer. In fact, I saw a stat that showed last season, he was double teamed the most of all of the edge rushers last season, and still had one of the highest (7th) pass rush win rates in the NFL.

The thought that he can't get to the QB or is anything but a great pass rusher, is flat out wrong. He's not Kahlil Mack. He's not an elite pass rusher. But he is in the next level.


I stand by my comparison of a more athletic Suggs. And if you say you wouldn't pay top dollar for Suggs when he was 27, you're flat out lying.

#25 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 10:07 AM

Pressuring the QB is great but you have to get home.

Clowney has never had more than 9.5 sacks in any season. He has had 6 or less in 3 seasons and that was with playing with Watt, one of the most dominant defensive players the game has seen.

I get what you are saying on how they can be flukish, I agree with you there. However, when it’s a consistent issue year in and year out, it becomes more than a fluke to me.

And yes, some of the sack numbers are due to him missing games. We don’t know how many sacks he would have gotten but agree that it would be more. But it’s not like he is some 12+ sack guy when he plays 16 games either.

Suggs has 20+ more sacks at the same age. Suggs did play one year more in that time frame.

After age 27, Suggs had some monster sack totals...but you could see them coming since he had multiple 10+ sack seasons in his career leading up to that point. (He also has some down years).

I don’t think you can sit here and say with any confidence that you see several 10+ sack seasons for Clowney and if you are paying 100+M, you need to have that.


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#26 Don Olsen

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 01:33 PM

The one thing to consider, a lot of teams have made it a point through analytics to get the ball out within 3 seconds on first and second down.  I think pressures are a decent statistic to look over, but you also need to see the personal packages, the blitz, the stunts, etc... that go with that pressure.  If its pressure with a rush 3 or rush 4, it's a win because your defense has the numbers in coverage.  If you required 5 or more in the scheme, the pressure is less.

 

 

A consideration in value with Judon is that one or two boneheaded penalty in frustration and his failure to keep his emotions in check.


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#27 bmore_ken

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 03:01 PM

I'm not seeing no franchise tag in any of the published language from the NFLPA. Lots of other things have been made public, I'm wondering if the franchise tag is staying. 


Personally I believe it's staying. Wouldn't it be front page news if they were doing away with it?



#28 cprenegade

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 11:46 PM

It now appears that the tags will not be going away.  They moved the dates backed by 2 days.  The tag on Judon might work out better for the Ravens in the long run.  No matter what moves they make they need to be aware that they will need cap room after next season.  If Lamar Jackson even comes close to his output this season, he is going to break the bank when it comes to a new contract.  I doubt the Ravens will let him get to the last year on his contract and risk him becoming a FA.  That extension will likely be the highest contract ever for a QB.  



#29 Mackus

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 07:39 AM


It now appears that the tags will not be going away. They moved the dates backed by 2 days. The tag on Judon might work out better for the Ravens in the long run. No matter what moves they make they need to be aware that they will need cap room after next season. If Lamar Jackson even comes close to his output this season, he is going to break the bank when it comes to a new contract. I doubt the Ravens will let him get to the last year on his contract and risk him becoming a FA. That extension will likely be the highest contract ever for a QB.


Mahomes will likely be the blueprint. If he doesn't sign this off-season, I doubt the Ravens will have to pay Jackson after year 3. Would be a major benefit to let him play out his rookie deal, including option, then pay up. Any time you can save before doing it makes those seasons have higher upside.

#30 BSLRobShields

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 07:45 AM

Could Judon be used to get Diggs?
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#31 Biggsy

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:38 AM

Could Judon be used to get Diggs?



Diggs scares me with his injury history. But that is definitely an interesting idea.

#32 Steve55

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:59 AM

Could Judon be used to get Diggs?

 

Would it be an even cap space trade.? Minn needs to make more cuts.



#33 Mackus

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:13 AM

Would it be an even cap space trade.? Minn needs to make more cuts.

 

No, Minn would have to count for all of Judon's new deal (or his franchise tag number) against their cap while also accounting for all of Diggs' accelerated bonuses against the cap as well.



#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:19 AM

Could Judon be used to get Diggs?


Btw, obviously indirectly this could happen. Trade Judon for picks and use those picks for Diggs.

I meant more of Judon to Minnesota.

My guess is that we would have to include something like a 3rd round pick.
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#35 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 12:28 PM

Could Judon be used to get Diggs?

I mean, the VIkings make willy nilly trades (5th rounder for second string kicker who they cut a week later). So maybe.


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#36 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 12:39 PM

The Vikings are pretty tight cap wise. They only have $1.5 million available right now. There are a few guys like Rhodes and Joseph who are probably gone but that's still not creating a ton of space. I think there is a bit of incentive, potentially, for them to move Diggs for picks not only because it creates a small sliver of cap space but it also reduces their future burdens with cheaper players. 

 

But getting Judon onto their roster, probably is a total non-starter. 

 

If Dee Ford can net a second, I'm hard pressed to see how Judon might not be able to do the same. But it does feel like the market for Diggs should be a first. I could easily see the Pats doing that. 



#37 cprenegade

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 07:36 PM

I still don't see Diggs being happy in the Ravens system. He already is somewhat unhappy that Minnesota emphasized the run as much as they did. New England is a better fit for him, but then it isn't his choice so we will see. I just see him lasting about 6 games before the complaints start to surface.

#38 Don Olsen

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:12 AM

Well Yannick Ngakoue sees himself as a $22 million per year player, I expect he is tagged by the Jaguars or ends up signing with the Colts or Dolphins.


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#39 Steve55

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 05:58 PM

Well Yannick Ngakoue sees himself as a $22 million per year player, I expect he is tagged by the Jaguars or ends up signing with the Colts or Dolphins.

 

Cutting Dareus opened up almost $20 mil.






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