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#41 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 12:49 PM

Why isn’t a homer hit every time in batting practice?


1. Because not every swing from every player is meant to be a power swing.

2. You're not really implying that this made no difference, are you?

#42 bmore_ken

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 01:24 PM

I'm not so sure about that.

Knowing what pitch is coming can make the development of a young hitter much easier, especially since the biggest stumbling block for young hitters is learning how to hit breaking stuff and speed changes once they get to the big leagues.

I'm pretty sure watching a ton of Sandy Koufax videos wouldn't have made it any easier to not strike out when you faced his curveball.



#43 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 03:54 PM

1. Because not every swing from every player is meant to be a power swing.

2. You're not really implying that this made no difference, are you?


I’m saying that their talent, their development, etc..is why they won...not this.

Every team does stuff like this..just like NFL teams find ways to tape things...but not everyone gets caught.
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#44 Mackus

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:23 PM

I'm pretty sure watching a ton of Sandy Koufax videos wouldn't have made it any easier to not strike out when you faced his curveball.

 

It's not about watching videos of a guy and then going up to the plate.  It's about teammates and club officials watching in real-time what signs the catcher is giving and/or what grips the pitcher is holding and then relaying that to the batter at the plate before the pitch is delivered.

 

If the hitters against Sandy Koufax knew when the curveball was coming, they'd have had more success than they did when having to guess if it was coming or not.  How much more success is completely unknowable.  But I find it impossible to seriously suggest that it wouldn't significantly help.



#45 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

I'm pretty sure watching a ton of Sandy Koufax videos wouldn't have made it any easier to not strike out when you faced his curveball.

 

I'm not sure why you keep talking about watching video.  Do you think the suspensions were for watching too much TV or something?



#46 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:24 PM

It's not about watching videos of a guy and then going up to the plate. It's about teammates and club officials watching in real-time what signs the catcher is giving and/or what grips the pitcher is holding and then relaying that to the batter at the plate before the pitch is delivered.

If the hitters against Sandy Koufax knew when the curveball was coming, they'd have had more success than they did when having to guess if it was coming or not. How much more success is completely unknowable. But I find it impossible to seriously suggest that it wouldn't significantly help.


I feel the same way.

#47 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:32 PM

I’m saying that their talent, their development, etc..is why they won...not this.

Every team does stuff like this..just like NFL teams find ways to tape things...but not everyone gets caught.

I think you're dead wrong that "everyone" rigs a live video feed of the pitcher's grip and the signs the catcher gives to tell a batter in real time what pitch is coming. I feel this way for two reasons.

1. The Astros took great measures to hide and deceive other teams about it. If "everyone was doing it," we'd be seeing the same nod-and-wink reaction to this from the other organizations (and probably the commissioner) as we did with steroids.

2. A.J. Hinch smashed two monitors to stop people from doing it. Nobody *smashes* monitors if it's a common thing you expect to see. That shows anger and a level of disgust, at least at first.

The "well everyone is doing it" argument is lazy.

#48 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:37 PM

Ok

I just don’t care enough about this to really discuss it.

I just don’t think it is close to the reason they won.
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#49 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:47 PM

Ok

I just don’t care enough about this to really discuss it.

I just don’t think it is close to the reason they won.

For someone who loves to call the opinions of others "weak," this is about the weakest opinion you could have.

"I just don't care" and "I don't think it's close to why they won" isn't analysis. It's akin to saying "because I said so, or "because I feel like it."

This is the biggest case of organizational cheating since the black sox scandal, with the harshest penalties ever handed down to an organization in the history of the sport. You should care.

If you honestly and truly think it gave them a zero-to-insignificant advantage to frequently know exactly what was coming- to not need to guess on the pitch or location from the best pitcher's on planet Earth - then I don't know what to tell you. I'm forced to believe that you must just not know very much about pitching and hitting (which I never believed until you vocalized this opinion).

Frankly I'm stunned by any take from anyone that this isn't a big deal.

#50 Ravens2006

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:17 AM

Of course it's to a batter's advantage to know what pitch is coming.  Or at minimum, know what pitch is NOT coming (e.g. fastball vs. not fastball).  That's undeniable to me.  I think anyone that's ever played baseball (or fastpitch softball) at a level where not every pitch thrown is a mediocre "fastball" would acknowledge that?  It doesn't mean you're going to hit it every time, major league pitching is hard to hit regardless.  But your chances of making contact, and thus getting a hit, ABSOLUTELY go up when you can either eliminate certain possibilities, or know exactly what is coming.  Mariano Rivera's cutter was hard to hit no matter what, but if you knew that was NOT coming in a situation, or knew positively it WAS coming, I guarantee your batting average would be higher.

 

I also don't buy the "everyone does it, who cares" thing.  Maybe not.  Maybe that's why other teams aren't getting caught?  Maybe some franchises really DO go way over the line / break the rules at a level that other teams are not approaching.

 

The Altuve homerun thing is definitely very suspicious to me.  Maybe it's nothing, I guess we'll find out.  But IF it turns out that he had some sort of signal system in play there, that's a GINORMOUS issue to me.  It sort of makes some sense too when you think about it...  Regular season game, crowd isn't going to be that big or that loud... bang on a trash can, the batter will hear it.  ALCS game, crowd is going to be huge and raucous, batter won't hear anything but crowd noise... so he gets the message delivered directly to his body.  And I don't know... but if I (or most people) had just hit a HR to put my team in the World Series, rounding third heading home, I find it really, really hard to believe that the foremost thought in my mind would be "Don't rip my jersey off!"  

 

I'd also be curious to know if the Chapman suspected what had happened.  Now I might be reading too much in to it, but he just stared off in to space and looked completely shocked.  Maybe it was the gravity of the situation, but it also could have been a "That SOB knew what was coming" too.  He launched a ball that was sort of high and away, then Champan coincidentally timed his walk off the field to strangely walk really close to Altuve as he came down the 3rd base line...






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