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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 06:18 PM

Whatever you want to call it. High ceiling, everyday players. All I'm asking for here is solid MLB players with upside. Not HOFers. 

 

 

 

I realize that five of those eight names that I'd rather see get a shot in April aren't on the 40-man, but you can find five guys currently on there that can easily be dumped. Davis, Wojo, Hess, Armstrong, Fry, trade Givens, Kline, Wilkerson, Valaika...I could go on.


Not to derail, but Kline doesn't belong in that list. 
 



#22 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 06:26 PM


Not to derail, but Kline doesn't belong in that list. 
 

He's 28 and wasn't good last year. Seems expendable unless I'm missing something. 


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#23 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 06:53 PM

Many of those names will be options right out of the gate or at some point in the season.
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#24 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 07:16 PM

He's 28 and wasn't good last year. Seems expendable unless I'm missing something. 


There is a lot of arm talent there.  He missed '16 and '17... '18 was getting his feet back under him, '19 was first taste of the bigs. 

He could easily be absolutely nothing.  If he doesn't show improvement in '20, he is....  but he's got enough talent imo to help, and if things click... could be a nice 'pen piece at minimal cost for several years.


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#25 dude

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 09:24 PM

When, then, do you think Elias plans to not punt?

 

Short answer: 2022  (when I think the narrative at least changes)

 

Longer answer: <<skipped>>



#26 BSLRobShields

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:18 AM

Short answer: 2022 (when I think the narrative at least changes)

Longer answer: <<skipped>>


Do you like the internal talent?
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#27 Mike B

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 10:51 AM


I'll be disappointed if this time next year, I don't think .500 is within reach for the '21 season. 
It absolutely should be.

I hope you are right, fear you are not.


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#28 Mike B

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 11:28 AM


There is a lot of arm talent there.  He missed '16 and '17... '18 was getting his feet back under him, '19 was first taste of the bigs. 

He could easily be absolutely nothing.  If he doesn't show improvement in '20, he is....  but he's got enough talent imo to help, and if things click... could be a nice 'pen piece at minimal cost for several years.

Yea, I think this is the year, where Kline has to make his move.  I think last year was a success in that he got back on the field and stayed healthy.  I try not to make decisions on any player in his first year.  Talent will improve with experience.  Hopefully Kline does that.


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#29 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 11:37 AM

Yea, I think this is the year, where Kline has to make his move.  I think last year was a success in that he got back on the field and stayed healthy.  I try not to make decisions on any player in his first year.  Talent will improve with experience.  Hopefully Kline does that.


To be fair to Mike Randall, Kline's AAA era also sucked (k's, and hit per ip good though). 

He figures to begin '20 at AAA.  He needs to stay healthy and perform.  Opportunity is there for him. 

But he had some easy velocity, and nice movement. I'm definitely a fan of the ability, but obviously that doesn't always tell the story.



#30 Mike B

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 12:02 PM


To be fair to Mike Randall, Kline's AAA era also sucked (k's, and hit per ip good though). 

He figures to begin '20 at AAA.  He needs to stay healthy and perform.  Opportunity is there for him. 

But he had some easy velocity, and nice movement. I'm definitely a fan of the ability, but obviously that doesn't always tell the story.

Yea, agreed.  Mike's view IMO is very fair.  I think, in Kline's case and also Harvey's the best news is they made it through the year.  

It is time, for them to become good major league pitchers.  

The tools are there.


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#31 bmore_ken

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 03:59 PM

Short answer: 2022  (when I think the narrative at least changes)

 

Longer answer: <<skipped>>

 

 

I hope you are right, fear you are not.

I think dude's date is more like it. The rebuild didn't officially start until last year. Didn't the Astros lose 90+ four straight years?



#32 weird-O

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 04:01 PM

Short answer: 2022  (when I think the narrative at least changes)

 

Longer answer: <<skipped>>

If I was a betting man, I'd say this is probably how this whole thing plays out. I can't remember if Elias put a time stamp on his plan, I doubt he did. You can't over promise/under deliver if you don't actually make any promises. But if he did, it probably followed the usual 4-5 year range. That makes 2023 or 2024 the magic year.    


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#33 dude

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:08 PM

Do you like the internal talent?

 

Short Answer: Yes? (sort of...that's not really a one word answer question)

 

Longer answer: <<skipped>>



#34 dude

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:11 PM

The rebuild didn't officially start until last year. Didn't the Astros lose 90+ four straight years?

 

Yes, but it was 100+ losses for the first 3 (three straight 1-1 picks)

 

That was 2011-2013

Then in the next 3 years they won 70 (4th place), 86 (2nd place) and 84 (3rd place) games.



#35 dude

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:22 PM

I can't remember if Elias put a time stamp on his plan, I doubt he did. You can't over promise/under deliver if you don't actually make any promises. 

 

I don't think we've seen anything other than "patience" and "it will be worth it".

 

That makes 2023 or 2024 the magic year.    

 

This is going to deserve it's own thread, but following the Astros' 84 win, 3rd place season (the 6th season in 'the process')...'something' happened.

 

The Astros went from a good OPS team to the best OPS team (in MLB) while simultaneously going from the team that strikes out the most to the team that strikes out the least.  That's the '15-'16 season versus the '17-'19 season and the change happened between the '16 and '17 seasons.

 

They are talking about this every morning on MLB Radio and there's a general belief that Luhnow, Hinch and Cora (btw, the RedSox are getting roped in for their 2018 season...this thing is following Cora) are going to get suspensions at some level in addition to other material team penalties (draft picks, IFA, money, whatever).

 

If the success touted from the rebuilding process is deemed a product of cheating by MLB, will that change anyone's opinion of the merits of this process?  Again, probably deserves it's own thread.  Sounds like they will announce something sooner than later.



#36 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 06:10 AM

The something that happened is their young talent kept getting better because of experience.

Suggesting that they got better because of cheating is absurd.
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#37 dude

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 04:30 PM

The something that happened is their young talent kept getting better because of experience.

Suggesting that they got better because of cheating is absurd.

 

We'll get back to this.  I'll be on travel for about 10 days and may not have much computer access and don't want to start this without being around to discuss.

 

I don't think the topic goes away by the 25th.



#38 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 06:16 PM

We'll get back to this. I'll be on travel for about 10 days and may not have much computer access and don't want to start this without being around to discuss.

I don't think the topic goes away by the 25th.


I have no desire to get into this stupid conversation but thanks for asking.
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#39 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 12:06 PM

The something that happened is their young talent kept getting better because of experience.

Suggesting that they got better because of cheating is absurd.


I'm not so sure about that.

Knowing what pitch is coming can make the development of a young hitter much easier, especially since the biggest stumbling block for young hitters is learning how to hit breaking stuff and speed changes once they get to the big leagues.

#40 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 12:29 PM

I'm not so sure about that.

Knowing what pitch is coming can make the development of a young hitter much easier, especially since the biggest stumbling block for young hitters is learning how to hit breaking stuff and speed changes once they get to the big leagues.


Why isn’t a homer hit every time in batting practice?
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