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BSL: Infield Expectations


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#1 BSLNickStevens

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 09:18 AM

BSL: Infield Expectations

https://www.baltimor...d-expectations/


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#2 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 09:46 AM

I’m expecting...a lot of bad.

The lack of true IF talent in the organization is troubling.

They really need to address this.
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#3 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:34 AM

I too am interested in getting another look at Ruiz. 

Hard to give much stock to DRS and UZR/150 at this point (with Mejdal talking about how inaccurate / antiquated they are); but by the eye test I thought he was pretty good defensively. As you pointed out, showed better pop in the 2nd half.  Despite the low baa, I thought he typically had good ab's, and wouldn't surprise me to see his average take a leap up. 

 

Alberto had a great year with the bat. Curious to see if he can replicate. He did typically hit for average in the Minors. Thought he was better defensively at 3rd vs. 2nd. But if he can concentrate solely at 2nd, maybe he looks better there. 

 

Nunez just not being a liability at 3rd would make him much more interesting overall.  Everyone's power numbers were inflated a bit in '19, but his power is real.  Numbers all year last year about his exit velocity.  Would like to see him improve vs. RHP.   He had a slow / poor August and September, or his '19 numbers would look better overall. 



#4 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:07 AM

I think I've written enough times that I'm fine with trading Mancini...  but given the roster right now, he should be at 1st. 

 

If you have him at 1st, sign Iglesias, and Severino / Sisco give you something at C....  it's not a horrible infield. 



#5 BSLNickStevens

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 11:11 AM

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rylan Bannon come up at some point and shake things up. I'm not high on his arm at third base, found myself holding my breath on most of his throws across the diamond, but I do like him at second and he put up a solid year at the plate, including a .345 OBP between AA/AAA. Still put up good offensive numbers in an Eastern League largely void of offense. A lot like Ryan McKenna, if he doesn't try to be a home run hitter, the bat can be a solid bottom of the order piece.


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#6 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:25 PM

I guess my answer is, who cares.

 

This certainly is a larger discussion, but the refrain from Elias and those that promote losing now to win later is that it "will be worth it".

 

Does anyone think think that Alberto, Martin, Nunez and Ruiz are manning 2B, SS and 3B on any 90+win Oriole team?

 

You don't need to burn seasons to find guys that might be on the bottom half of your roster.

 

That doesn't mean these guys can't have value to winning.

 

The Rangers need a RHed 1B/DH compliment to the guys they have.  The Rockies need a similar RHed 1B compliment.

 

Their are teams that could use Alberto as the short half of a 2B platoon.

 

Ruiz/Alberto would have likely been more valuable to the Brewers than Ryon Healey at 3B.

 

Why does Martin need to go to AAA?  Is something going to happen in his development that is ever going to make him a top-half of the roster player?  

 

So if these guys are just fodder for the current roster to survive seasons to get to "it will be worth it"...then who are we getting to?  That should be the real 2B, SS, 3B question.

 

Thought the scout's comments (Melewski article) about Bannon were interesting in that they thought he was a great defensive player.

Elais mentioned Mason McCoy.

We've seen other project Adam Hall.

 

Does anyone think a Bannon (3B), McCoy (SS), Hall (2B) infield projects in any meaningful way?

 

Gunner Henderson is certainly someone to watch, but he'd have an ETA of what....2024?  Joseph Ortiz?

Grenier seemed like a big over-draft just for defense, but if you liked him as a defensive guy with some modest offense hitting 9th, that's cool, but we don't have to do much to get to that guy.

 

If the guys you have don't look like they'll be significant and the guys you have in the system don't project to be significant and you haven't added any guys that project significantly....what exactly are we doing that we should meaningfully consider for 3B/SS/2B that tells us this will be worth it?

 

Again, for anyone that wants to answer the question, what does a competitive Oriole 3B/SS/2B combination look like to you?



#7 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:54 PM

I guess my answer is, who cares.

This certainly is a larger discussion, but the refrain from Elias and those that promote losing now to win later is that it "will be worth it".

Does anyone think think that Alberto, Martin, Nunez and Ruiz are manning 2B, SS and 3B on any 90+win Oriole team?

You don't need to burn seasons to find guys that might be on the bottom half of your roster.

That doesn't mean these guys can't have value to winning.

The Rangers need a RHed 1B/DH compliment to the guys they have. The Rockies need a similar RHed 1B compliment.

Their are teams that could use Alberto as the short half of a 2B platoon.

Ruiz/Alberto would have likely been more valuable to the Brewers than Ryon Healey at 3B.

Why does Martin need to go to AAA? Is something going to happen in his development that is ever going to make him a top-half of the roster player?

So if these guys are just fodder for the current roster to survive seasons to get to "it will be worth it"...then who are we getting to? That should be the real 2B, SS, 3B question.

Thought the scout's comments (Melewski article) about Bannon were interesting in that they thought he was a great defensive player.
Elais mentioned Mason McCoy.
We've seen other project Adam Hall.

Does anyone think a Bannon (3B), McCoy (SS), Hall (2B) infield projects in any meaningful way?

Gunner Henderson is certainly someone to watch, but he'd have an ETA of what....2024? Joseph Ortiz?
Grenier seemed like a big over-draft just for defense, but if you liked him as a defensive guy with some modest offense hitting 9th, that's cool, but we don't have to do much to get to that guy.

If the guys you have don't look like they'll be significant and the guys you have in the system don't project to be significant and you haven't added any guys that project significantly....what exactly are we doing that we should meaningfully consider for 3B/SS/2B that tells us this will be worth it?

Again, for anyone that wants to answer the question, what does a competitive Oriole 3B/SS/2B combination look like to you?


The answer is, outside of maybe Hall and eventually Henderson, we don’t have any of this in our system. Like I said, the IF depth is pathetic.

As for Alberto, There’s a better chance that he is DFa’ed by June vs coming close to what he did last year.
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#8 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:10 PM

The answer is, outside of maybe Hall and eventually Henderson, we don’t have any of this in our system. Like I said, the IF depth is pathetic.

As for Alberto, There’s a better chance that he is DFa’ed by June vs coming close to what he did last year.


Yeah? What are you expecting from Alberto?  Regression, or are you predicting him to fall apart completely?



#9 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:14 PM

I am sticking with my Hasner can be on the next good O's team.



#10 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:21 PM

Dude, appreciate the book... could've probably just said, "You don't need to burn seasons to find guys that might be on the bottom half of your roster." 

 

And that's fine.  Don't really disagree. 


Do I think any of Alberto, Nunez, Ruiz, Martin are starters on a 90 win team? Probably not.
Am interested in this '20 season though to see if Alberto can replicate his '19, if Nunez can get back to playing some at 3rd and look 'livable', if Ruiz can reach another level offensively, and if Martin (if he's going to be the ML SS) can build on some of the 2nd half gains we saw. 

 

In-terms of, "Again, for anyone that wants to answer the question, what does a competitive Oriole 3B/SS/2B combination look like to you?"

 

It likely looks like guys who aren't here at all. So you keep adding depth to your system, and payroll flexibility to your operations... and you'll have opportunities to address those weaknesses with external additions.  It's not overly important to identify who that will be today.


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#11 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:56 PM

Yeah? What are you expecting from Alberto?  Regression, or are you predicting him to fall apart completely?


Definite regression with falling apart being more likely than hitting as well as last year.
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#12 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:57 PM

I am sticking with my Hasner can be on the next good O's team.


That’s not a very confident statement
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#13 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 03:56 PM

Definite regression with falling apart being more likely than hitting as well as last year.


Agreed.

#14 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:22 PM

Definite regression with falling apart being more likely than hitting as well as last year.

 

Agreed.

 

I don't think expecting him to regress is unfair. 
That was a pretty big year. Huge given the non-existent expectations there were for him. 

 

.305 average, 160 hits... 35 xbh's. 

 

But he hit for average multiple times in the minors. 
He gets a lot of contact. I'm not sure I see that falling off a cliff. 

(Of course, since he doesn't walk, he has to hit for average.)

 

He also had a better 2nd half overall than the 1st half, and that's even with his September being a disaster. 

 

He actually had 2 months (June, and August) where he batted .354 for the Month. That's silly. 

 


He earned the opportunity for another look. 
He was fun to watch last year.   I can agree with the logic saying he falls back... but I'm interested to see what he does.

 

Regression you'd expect to see is vs. LHP imo.  He murdered them in '19. He can be very good vs. lefties in '20, and probably not 'that' good.   Maybe it evens out if he can improve vs. RHP.   His home / road splits are also interesting. 



#15 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

Do I think any of Alberto, Nunez, Ruiz, Martin are starters on a 90 win team? Probably not.

 

Am interested in this '20 season though to see if Alberto can replicate his '19, if Nunez can get back to playing some at 3rd and look 'livable', if Ruiz can reach another level offensively, and if Martin (if he's going to be the ML SS) can build on some of the 2nd half gains we saw. 

 

So best cases for Alberto, Ruiz, Nunez and Martin.  How does that make any difference?



#16 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 05:13 PM

It likely looks like guys who aren't here at all. So you keep adding depth to your system, and payroll flexibility to your operations... and you'll have opportunities to address those weaknesses with external additions.  It's not overly important to identify who that will be today.

 

I still think we're going to need more definition to Step 2.

 

Let me try this.  I've discussed it before.

 

Does a Seager (3B), Seager (SS), Jeter Downs (2B) infield have potential for a Championship caliber team?



#17 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 06:47 PM

Kyle Seager is nothing.

Corey Seager is obviously very good...if healthy.

Never know with a prospect but the upside is there.

My immediate answer is no it’s not but the upside is there for it to be.
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#18 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:03 PM

My immediate answer is no it’s not but the upside is there for it to be.

 

....I know you don't really want to discuss the specifics of those guys (I would bet on Kyle Seager this year) and that's fine or we can....this is a thread on those infield positions.

 

....but ANY team that is viewed as competitive in the next 4 years, we already know the names of those players because they are in some team's system now.

 

Why can't anyone pick any year and write down players for these positions that they'd view as "worth it".

 

We find every reason to be ambiguous, criticize every option, we can't bet on older guys, guys with any injuries, younger guys that have risk....who's left?

 

We aren't going to have a Bryant and Lindor left side of the infield. Ever.  



#19 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:13 PM

....I know you don't really want to discuss the specifics of those guys (I would bet on Kyle Seager this year) and that's fine or we can....this is a thread on those infield positions.

....but ANY team that is viewed as competitive in the next 4 years, we already know the names of those players because they are in some team's system now.

Why can't anyone pick any year and write down players for these positions that they'd view as "worth it".

We find every reason to be ambiguous, criticize every option, we can't bet on older guys, guys with any injuries, younger guys that have risk....who's left?

We aren't going to have a Bryant and Lindor left side of the infield. Ever.


You asked if that could be a championship IF.

I’m saying, at this point, no.
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#20 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:33 PM

You asked if that could be a championship IF.

I’m saying, at this point, no.

 

I understand that....from your perspective, what does a Championship infield look like (use players).






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