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Payroll Analysis 2000-2019 vs Playoffs


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#181 russsnyder

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 10:37 AM

This is a pretty one-sided version of the Art Modell story. He didn't just receive income from Municipal. He paid rent to the city, while assuming all maintenance and improvement expenses on a then 45 year old stadium. It's also important to remember that the Indians moved to Jacobs field after the end of the 1993 season. So he suddenly lost all that revenue, which would have been the bulk of his stadium revenue - 81 games worth.

As for voting for Jacksonville over Baltimore, all but 2 owners voted the same way. That had more to do with Tagliabue and Cooke lobbying against Baltimore, than it did Modell. So I don't buy your theory that he voted for Jacksonville, just to could keep Baltimore in his back pocket, in case he needed to leave the mistake on the lake.

It's the side that is essentially keeping Modell out of the Hall of Fame. Further, if Cleveland did not get an expansion team ( named the Browns), Modell would have even looked worse for moving the team out of Cleveland.

You are correct that Modell paid for the maintenance of Municipal Stadium from 1974 on. He also had revenue through the Cleveland Stadium Corporation. He set the Corporation up in 1974 when he signed a 25 year lease. Through the corporation, he received revenue through concessions and parking at all stadium events. (Including the Indians)

Modell's five per cent partner, Alfred Lerner, was one of the people that was going to head ownership of an expansion franchise in Baltimore. The expansion team was not awarded to Baltimore.

Fast forward a couple of years. Cleveland builds the Cavs and Indians new facilities. Modell sees his former tenant flourishing while he is stuck with Cleveland Municipal. Meanwhile, Baltimore dangles the deal for a move out there one last time. Modell knows someone is going to take the deal. So he takes it. (By the way, I am glad that he did.)

My point is that when big money is involved, the notion of a team being a " public trust" can very easily go out the window. It does not matter if the owner is a billionaire or one that is struggling like Modell was.
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#182 dude

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 03:27 PM

My point is that when big money is involved, the notion of a team being a " public trust" can very easily go out the window. It does not matter if the owner is a billionaire or one that is struggling like Modell was.

 

My recommendation would be to use the other 99.3% of the situations to develop perspective for your opinion.



#183 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 03:57 PM

It's the side that is essentially keeping Modell out of the Hall of Fame. Further, if Cleveland did not get an expansion team ( named the Browns), Modell would have even looked worse for moving the team out of Cleveland.

You are correct that Modell paid for the maintenance of Municipal Stadium from 1974 on. He also had revenue through the Cleveland Stadium Corporation. He set the Corporation up in 1974 when he signed a 25 year lease. Through the corporation, he received revenue through concessions and parking at all stadium events. (Including the Indians)

Modell's five per cent partner, Alfred Lerner, was one of the people that was going to head ownership of an expansion franchise in Baltimore. The expansion team was not awarded to Baltimore.

Fast forward a couple of years. Cleveland builds the Cavs and Indians new facilities. Modell sees his former tenant flourishing while he is stuck with Cleveland Municipal. Meanwhile, Baltimore dangles the deal for a move out there one last time. Modell knows someone is going to take the deal. So he takes it. (By the way, I am glad that he did.)

My point is that when big money is involved, the notion of a team being a " public trust" can very easily go out the window. It does not matter if the owner is a billionaire or one that is struggling like Modell was.

Well...I really, really disagree with most of what you're saying about the Modell topic. But since it's not the topic of this thread, I'll leave it for a possible future conversation on the Ravens side ;)

 

But I agree with your comment about the idea of teams as a public trust. I wish they operated like that, but they just don't.  


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#184 dude

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 04:38 PM

New Royals ownership LINK

 

Edgerley

“Having grown up in the Kansas City area, I have been a Royals fan since the team was founded in 1969,” Edgerley said in a release from the Royals. “During the 70s and early 80s, I spent many a summer night listening to Denny Matthews call the games on the radio; it is one of my favorite memories. Current Royals announcer Steve Physioc was a high school classmate.

 

“It is extraordinary to be part of the Royals’ future and what I hope are many successful seasons on the field, along with the significant impact the Royals can have on the broader Kansas City community.”

 

Matlack

“As has been demonstrated especially in recent years, the Royals bring Kansas City and this region together as a community in a positive, fun-filled manner that resonates with people from all walks of life,” Matlack said in the release. “I want this community ‘rally house’ to continue for our children and their children.”

 

Stonestreet

“It’s no secret how passionate I am about Kansas City, along with Kansas City sports and Major League Baseball,” Stonestreet said in the release. “ When this opportunity arose to invest in the Royals, I could not think of a more exciting or fitting way to combine one of my passions with my love for the great people of my hometown. I look forward to being part of a group working to bring championship baseball to Kansas City once again.”

 

Of course they're going to say that and certainly time will tell what they do and how they do it, but the only thing we have today is their words and you can at least see where their initial perspective is.

 

They're billionaires (some individually and certainly as a group). 

They don't need to split up profits on the Royals baseball team to make ends meet.


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#185 BSLRobShields

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 04:46 PM

New Royals ownership LINK

Edgerley


Matlack


Stonestreet


Of course they're going to say that and certainly time will tell what they do and how they do it, but the only thing we have today is their words and you can at least see where their initial perspective is.

They're billionaires (some individually and certainly as a group).
They don't need to split up profits on the Royals baseball team to make ends meet.


What they need to do and what they will do are 2 different things.
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#186 dude

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:08 PM

What they need to do and what they will do are 2 different things.

 

That's a given.  Is it fair to say they are framing it (ownership of the Royals) as a 'public trust'?



#187 BSLRobShields

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:09 PM

That's a given.  Is it fair to say they are framing it (ownership of the Royals) as a 'public trust'?


I don’t think it matters what they say out loud.
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#188 russsnyder

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:23 PM

Well...I really, really disagree with most of what you're saying about the Modell topic. But since it's not the topic of this thread, I'll leave it for a possible future conversation on the Ravens side ;)

But I agree with your comment about the idea of teams as a public trust. I wish they operated like that, but they just don't.


That's cool.

Yeah, sorry to everyone about the derail.

I wish they did too.

#189 russsnyder

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:38 PM


My recommendation would be to use the other 99.3% of the situations to develop perspective for your opinion.


Let's see, within the last three years, the Chargers, Rams, and Raiders have moved.That's a bigger percentage than .7 %. I'll give you credit, you didn't write a novella in your response. Lastly, I don't need any recommendation from you on how I formulate my opinion. Thanks anyway.
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#190 DJ MC

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 10:31 PM

That's a given.  Is it fair to say they are framing it (ownership of the Royals) as a 'public trust'?

 

This is the same both-sides-of-the-mouth that owners always use. When it suits them, it's, "This isn't MY team, this is *location's team*! I'm doing this for you!" When it suits them, it's, "Well, how can you expect us to survive like this? We're running a business here!"

 

It'll be the same in Kansas City, just like it was under Glass.


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