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MASN: More from Saturday’s Winter Warm-Up


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 09:56 AM

MASN: More from Saturday’s Winter Warm-Up

https://www.masnspor...er-warm-up.html



#2 Mike B

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 11:11 AM

I am really sick of hearing of hearing about the analytics, wake me up when we have the players, that can make the studies work.


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#3 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:02 PM

"Executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias spoke again about the need for patience, how the process can’t be rushed and the reward will make it worthwhile. And he’d appreciate fans spreading the word so he isn’t one of the lone voices."

 

 

 

I'm Trying, Mike!!!! 


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#4 Ricker Says

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:03 PM

"Executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias spoke again about the need for patience, how the process can’t be rushed and the reward will make it worthwhile. And he’d appreciate fans spreading the word so he isn’t one of the lone voices."

 

 

 

I'm Trying, Mike!!!!

How can you exercise patience to this degree, when we're learning that the sons appear to be more of the same in terms of ownership meddling? Or do you just think that the Angelos hatred for our woes is just overstated and no big deal at the end of the day?


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#5 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 01:06 PM

How can you exercise patience to this degree, when we're learning that the sons appear to be more of the same in terms of ownership meddling?

Always half full, bro.

 

I'm willing to see what this guy can do, that's all. There's no "this degree" yet, we're just at the beginning of this process. We'll see in a few years if I'm naive, or my patience will be rewarded. But it's waaaaay too soon to judge. 


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#6 Mackus

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:08 PM

I'm willing to see what this guy can do, that's all. There's no "this degree" yet, we're just at the beginning of this process. We'll see in a few years if I'm naive, or my patience will be rewarded. But it's waaaaay too soon to judge. 

 

Patience in evaluating Elias is entirely unrelated to the issue of ownership.

 

But ownership is sabotaging his plan already by nitpicking over every little cent he may want to spend rather than setting a budget and getting the hell out of the way.  Elias may be the greatest GM in the history of the sport but he has zero chance of seeing his goals reached if ownership remains what they've always been which is the worst ownership group in the game due to their own stupidity, stubbornness, and greed.  

 

I will fully admit that my desire to see a less pitiful on-field product even if it costs some money is esoteric and easily debatable whether it's worth the money or not.  But nobody can argue against it being shameful that ownership wouldn't have been interested in a money for prospect swap similar to the recent Angels/Giants trade.  There is no explaining that away as anything but ownership spitting in the face of every fan.  If you don't want to spend money to see the team go from 50 wins to 65 wins, I can understand that.  I cannot accept ownership refusing to spend money to improve your farm system by bringing in prospect at great prices (if the Angels had released Wilson, he signs for far more as a free agent than what Cozart has left on his deal).  Missing out on this one deal is not the problem,  not allowing your GM autonomy to spend the money and refusing to even consider the idea is the problem.



#7 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:18 PM

Patience in evaluating Elias is entirely unrelated to the issue of ownership.

 

But ownership is sabotaging his plan already by nitpicking over every little cent he may want to spend rather than setting a budget and getting the hell out of the way.  Elias may be the greatest GM in the history of the sport but he has zero chance of seeing his goals reached if ownership remains what they've always been which is the worst ownership group in the game due to their own stupidity, stubbornness, and greed.  

Maybe I just haven't been paying much attention to it, but is there evidence that this is what's happening. I openly admit I don't live and breath the team the way some of you do, so it's quite possible I've missed it. 



#8 Mackus

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:20 PM

Maybe I just haven't been paying much attention to it, but is there evidence that this is what's happening. I openly admit I don't live and breath the team the way some of you do, so it's quite possible I've missed it. 

 

Yes.  Elias said that he'd have to go to ownership on a case-by-case basis if he was to do a trade like the Giants/Angels trade.  So that proves that he doesn't have a set budget number and is allowed to do whatever he wants with it (decades worth of further supporting evidence for that).

 

Same article then went on to say that Elias would like to do these types of trades but ownership likely wouldn't allow it.  That part wasn't said directly by Elias, though.

 

So it's not exactly a direct one-to-one, inarguable smoking gun.  But given everything we've seen regarding expenditures, going back to the trades in 2018 when we wouldn't pay salary on Machado, Brach, and Britton and devalued Gausman by attaching O'Day, I'm convinced.



#9 Mike B

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

"Executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias spoke again about the need for patience, how the process can’t be rushed and the reward will make it worthwhile. And he’d appreciate fans spreading the word so he isn’t one of the lone voices."

 

 

 

I'm Trying, Mike!!!! 

I know it does not seem like it, but I am not down on Elias, but I can not buy into to a process, where the idea that losing 110 games is acceptable.

Businesses, around the ball park are dying, people are losing jobs etc.  There seems to be a feeling that we are going  to have 2 more years like the last 2.   The rewards better be worth it.

 

It seems like any time he or Sig is interviewed, we get back to hearing how many mathematicians they have hired and how they are hiring more and will have a state of the art analytics department.  YIPEEE!


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#10 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:54 PM

I know it does not seem like it, but I am not down on Elias, but I can not buy into to a process, where the idea that losing 110 games is acceptable.

Businesses, around the ball park are dying, people are losing jobs etc.  There seems to be a feeling that we are going  to have 2 more years like the last 2.   The rewards better be worth it.

 

It seems like any time he or Sig is interviewed, we get back to hearing how many mathematicians they have hired and how they are hiring more and will have a state of the art analytics department.  YIPEEE!

Fair enough. I can, and will continue to buy into it, but only because I've seen it work. I get the frustration, i get the lack of believing in ownership, all of it. 

 

But I'm a super positive person,admittedly, probably to a fault, so i'm willing to wait and see what happens. If i end up being wrong, so be it. I can live with it, but there's no reason not to support it now, in my opinion. 


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#11 Mike B

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 02:59 PM

Fair enough. I can, and will continue to buy into it, but only because I've seen it work. I get the frustration, i get the lack of believing in ownership, all of it. 

 

But I'm a super positive person,admittedly, probably to a fault, so i'm willing to wait and see what happens. If i end up being wrong, so be it. 

I am coming at it from a different angle than most here.  I am not a young guy, and I hate to season entire baseball seasons flushed down the toilet like they do not matter.  I was a guy who spent a few thousand dollars a year on the Orioles.  I spend next to nothing now.  If they don't care about the product, I will keep my money.


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#12 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:05 PM

I am coming at it from a different angle than most here.  I am not a young guy, and I hate to season entire baseball seasons flushed down the toilet like they do not matter.  I was a guy who spent a few thousand dollars a year on the Orioles.  I spend next to nothing now.  If they don't care about the product, I will keep my money.

Fair enough, far be it for me to judge anyone's feelings on it, whether I agree or not. I just spent a few grand on this year's season tickets, and I know I won't use them all. Didn't last year, not even close. 

 

I'm 48 ( i was born one day after the Orioles lost the 1971 World Series in fact), and have seen great runs, and bad runs. This too shall pass, just like all the ones before and after. For better or worse, that's just what being a fan is to me. 


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#13 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:09 PM

I don't think anyone likes watching their team lose over 100 games in successive seasons, but the reality is we've seen Elias's plan work before. That's why I'm being hopeful.



#14 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:13 PM

I don't think anyone likes watching their team lose over 100 games in successive seasons, but the reality is we've seen Elias's plan work before. That's why I'm being hopeful.

And that's really all I'm saying. 

 

Until we see it not working, there's no reason not to have a positive outlook. 

 

But yeah, losing 115 games again this season won't be fun. 


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#15 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:19 PM

Somebody on Saturday asked Elias about buying a draft pick like the Giants did, and he basically said it was a question of resources.  They already have money allocated to other things, including improving the major league roster, so there isn't always room in the budget for that strategy.  It was a pretty good answer, even if it was probably at least 50% BS.  Or maybe I was just happy because I was eating a Boogs sandwich as he said it.



#16 Mike B

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:22 PM

Fair enough, far be it for me to judge anyone's feelings on it, whether I agree or not. I just spent a few grand on this year's season tickets, and I know I won't use them all. Didn't last year, not even close. 

 

I'm 48 ( i was born one day after the Orioles lost the 1971 World Series in fact), and have seen great runs, and bad runs. This too shall pass, just like all the ones before and after. For better or worse, that's just what it is to me. 

I have about a decade and a half on you, and I am impatient.  I had season tickets actually a weekend 13 game plan and a regular 13 game plan.  3 seats on the one and 4 on the other. from 1982 until 2018.  Bought about 18 games in 2018, and just a few last year.

I still get calls from the Orioles trying to get me to sign up.  I just can not do it.


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#17 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:35 PM

I have about a decade and a half on you, and I am impatient.  I had season tickets actually a weekend 13 game plan and a regular 13 game plan.  3 seats on the one and 4 on the other. from 1982 until 2018.  Bought about 18 games in 2018, and just a few last year.

I still get calls from the Orioles trying to get me to sign up.  I just can not do it.

i still buy them every year, just don't want to lose them when they are good again. 

 

But I'm flushing a nice amount of money down the toilet right now, i realize this. 


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#18 McNulty

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:39 PM

Open your books or allow him the resources to leverage everything he can into acquiring talent. 

 

There's no third option that doesn't piss us off.


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#19 Mackus

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:41 PM

Until we see it not working, there's no reason not to have a positive outlook. 

 

What about when we see ownership's influence directly knocking the plan off course?

 

Elias has very clearly not been given unilateral control of a budget.  He's come out and said that ownership continues to meddle and have influence and require approval over minor moves.  And if we have listened to anything Elias has said about adding talent to every level of your organization through every channel available to him, it also seems clear that he'd like to do things like that Angels/Giants trade where you use current MLB salary flexibility to strengthen the farm system.  And if we believe recent reporting, he is not being allowed to do so.

 

That last part is the most open for debate.  But I think we've seen enough from this ownership over the years that it's very easy to believe that they are not willing to spending money to effectively purchase prospects in hopes of improving the farm system.  Elias has convinced them to open the purse strings internationally which is a great piece of work on his part.  But he hasn't been given the basic control that any functional team needs.  



#20 Mike B

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Posted 16 December 2019 - 03:44 PM

i still buy them every year, just don't want to lose them when they are good again. 

 

But I'm flushing a nice amount of money down the toilet right now, i realize this. 

It got to where I could not give them away the last year or so.   I am probably done as a season ticket holder, although the grands kids may draw me back, when they get a little older.  My son has a 3 year old that asks a lot of questions about the Ravens.  I just bought 2 more PSL's next to my current seats.  The plan is to take the kids, when they get older.  Maybe if the Orioles are good, I will do the same....not sure though.


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