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2019-20 Game 11: @Penn State 12/10 7:00PM ESPN2


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#141 Ricker Says

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:14 PM

Turgeon just isn't a F4 caliber coach IMO. I just can't even fathom it.
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#142 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:17 PM

It's not a terrible loss on paper but it's very obnoxious because it's just a culmination of the two big problems we've seen all year or even going back further. Slow starts and tons of turnovers.

These are the exact reasons people are hesitant to get excited about a very talented team.

 

Very little heart, as usual
They're a talented team and will win their share of games, but as usual just not much fun to watch.


Yep.  
 



#143 Ricker Says

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:18 PM

Going to get ran off their own floor in early January by Ohio St.
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#144 Mike B

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:29 PM

I really expected this kind of game and that is sad.

 

As soon as I saw how physical PSU was going to be, I knew there were problems.

 

The lack of a post presence, to me, is a large part of the problem. 


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#145 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:53 PM

This team has a long way to go before they can call themselves Top 5.



#146 Mike B

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 10:03 PM

This team has a long way to go before they can call themselves Top 5.

In fairness, they never did.  I think Turgeon is well aware of the problems.   There is no one who they can throw the ball inside too.  Mitchell 21, is the only one who, will post with his back to the basket.  He is way to quick with his footwork to make a shot.  He will get better, but he is the only one who tries.  A good post up, makes all shooters better.


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#147 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 10:23 PM

Dammit. I wussed out on the second half line again. It was MD -1.5. Won by 3.

Hopefully Penn State rolls and this doesn’t end up in the bad loss column.
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#148 PD24

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:00 PM

How many years is this with Turgeon? If the team isn't significantly more talented, forget it. 50/50 game Terps never really had much of a chance. Gets old year after year. He's not a Top 15 CBB job head coach. It's on MD as to if they feel they want/need/deserve that type of coach. If they're cool just being relevant every few years and winning just enough to not look like they suck, by all means, give him another extension. 

 

Regular season doesn't mean much at this point other than knowing they'll lose their customary 5-6 conference games. Because once March comes around, how is he going to coach team to win multiple games in a row against decent opponents? Just not going to happen.

 

He's just not a good coach. Really good guy. Good recruiter. Just something really missing. 


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#149 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:09 PM

He's signed through '22-'23.  We've said for a couple of years, that the end of this '19-'20 season would be the first time I could see MD potentially moving on.  Still not likely, but possible.  One way it becomes possible is if a team with expectations (this one) flames out. 
Of course the flip side is that things could break well for MD this year, and he might be handed an extension. 



#150 PD24

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:52 PM

He's signed through '22-'23.  We've said for a couple of years, that the end of this '19-'20 season would be the first time I could see MD potentially moving on.  Still not likely, but possible.  One way it becomes possible is if a team with expectations (this one) flames out. 
Of course the flip side is that things could break well for MD this year, and he might be handed an extension. 

 

To me it comes down to what the decision makers at MD actually believe the program is and should be. When we were in the ACC and Gary left, we all mostly agreed it was a Top 15 job. I don't think that's the case anymore with the conference move, but what is MD?

 

Would Sean Miller (just using a hypothetical example) consider leaving an Elite 8 team in AZ to coach MD in 2020? 

 

Turgeon would be a really good coach for a school like Nebraska, Clemson, Texas Tech. And hey, again, maybe that's why MD is becoming. 

 

But one Sweet 16 in 9 years and he's had some good teams, different teams. Obviously 2015-2016 was his most talented. But last year, the Dez Wells year, he's had chances. Just always the same story. 

 

He's never gotten to the conference tourney championship game. One Sweet 16. Never have good road wins vs good teams. Struggle vs teams he's clearly better than.

 

Just not working out for whatever reason. Something is missing. 


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#151 PD24

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:56 PM

I mean it just comes down to the definition of insanity. 4 years at Texas A&M and 8 years at MD is a pretty large sample size. There's nothing in Mark Turgeon's coaching history to say, hey, this guy is going to lead a team to a substantial postseason run. Literally when it happens, if it happens, it will be the first time ever. He coached well at much different types of schools. Wichita State and Texas A&M and Jacksonville State aren't Maryland. MD is big time. State of the art arena. Pro city. Extremely fertile recruiting area. Simply giving it the old try isn't good enough here where maybe at some other schools, the numbers he has put up would be acceptable.

 

Jason Garrett's record would be really nice for the Browns or Bengals or Dolphins. For the Cowboys? Not cutting it. Sometimes it just isn't a good fit.

 

He should go coach somewhere with less pressure and less expectations. He really, really struggles with high expectations. 


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#152 PD24

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Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:59 PM

The other thing about Turgeon. I think it's just the way that he talks as in the words he uses or the way he expresses himself that doesn't come through well with quotes, but I follow sports literally everyday of my life for the better part of 2 decades and I've never seen a coach seem so excuse-oriented after games. Below is a gem from tonight. Dude has been here 9 years. NINE YEARS. Cowan is a senior PG. WTF did they do all offseason? Guy is seriously amateur hour.

 

Mark Turgeon: "Guys, we've played six [games] in 13 [days.] That was a tough stretch for us, okay? So we haven't really had a lot of practice time — and I'm not making excuses, better team won — but we have like five plays that we can run."


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#153 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 06:54 AM

The other thing about Turgeon. I think it's just the way that he talks as in the words he uses or the way he expresses himself that doesn't come through well with quotes, but I follow sports literally everyday of my life for the better part of 2 decades and I've never seen a coach seem so excuse-oriented after games. Below is a gem from tonight. Dude has been here 9 years. NINE YEARS. Cowan is a senior PG. WTF did they do all offseason? Guy is seriously amateur hour.

Mark Turgeon: "Guys, we've played six [games] in 13 [days.] That was a tough stretch for us, okay? So we haven't really had a lot of practice time — and I'm not making excuses, better team won — but we have like five plays that we can run."


But he is right.

Coach K talked about it last week. Didn’t seem to happy that the VT game was scheduled when it was.

6 games in 13 days while finals are going on is pretty damn tough on the kids.

I’m not trying to absolve Turgeon from blame but this is a tough time of year for coaches and to play that much in that period of time is a lot on the plate for the kids.

The real gauge of this team is the Seton Hall game. They get some time off now, get past finals, etc...they are too guard oriented, meaning they need to use Smith a lot more.
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#154 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 07:00 AM

Btw, I don’t know how to view MD as a job anymore.

I have always had the belief that MD should be a top 20 team almost every year. Great recruiting base, UA, great arena and they have a good (not great) history.

Can you get a Chris Beard to MD? MD is certainly a better job than Texas Tech, so let’s assume MD pursues him. (He’s probably at or near the top of the list of guys you should pursue)

Is MD a good enough job for him to leave or, if you are him, do you wait for a different job?

MD athletics is always crying poor us. How much does that effect things?
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#155 Mackus

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 07:29 AM

Once Terps get a full share of Big Ten money ('20-21) they should have capital to buyout Turgeon and hire someone else. Until then, unless donors step up to fund it I doubt he's going anywhere for performance reasons. And even then, the Durkin fiasco may still prevent that as who knows how much money will have to be paid out in lawsuits and settlements and if their insurance will cover it or not. It's possible those funds come from the general University funds and not just the athletic department.
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#156 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 07:39 AM

Btw, I don’t know how to view MD as a job anymore.

I have always had the belief that MD should be a top 20 team almost every year. Great recruiting base, UA, great arena and they have a good (not great) history.

Can you get a Chris Beard to MD? MD is certainly a better job than Texas Tech, so let’s assume MD pursues him. (He’s probably at or near the top of the list of guys you should pursue)

Is MD a good enough job for him to leave or, if you are him, do you wait for a different job?

MD athletics is always crying poor us. How much does that effect things?



To add to this...does MD moving to the B10 make them less appealing for basketball?

It’s not that the B10 isn’t good at basketball but style of play is usually different compared to the ACC.

I have no idea if recruits or coaches view this as a factor or not but the move to the B10 does make me wonder if MD is still as desirable as we have all assumed it should be for years? I also think with all the AAU stuff and how that has blown up even more over the past decade, that the recruiting base in their back yard is no longer has much of an advantage as it should have been 5-15 years ago.
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#157 glenn__davis

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 07:45 AM

Yes, he is an excuse machine for sure.

 

I remember a few years back after playing Purdue I think, and his excuse was the Purdue got to go on a summer trip so they were a lot further along in their playbook then MD was.  Of course it didn't seem to make much difference for MD last year when they took a similar trip.  Apparently he did say that his team was young again the other day which, whatever at this point.  

 

And then of course last year we had the gem where he said his assistants might need to start making some inbound plays, like several weeks into the season.



#158 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 08:02 AM

To add to this...does MD moving to the B10 make them less appealing for basketball?

It’s not that the B10 isn’t good at basketball but style of play is usually different compared to the ACC.

I have no idea if recruits or coaches view this as a factor or not but the move to the B10 does make me wonder if MD is still as desirable as we have all assumed it should be for years? I also think with all the AAU stuff and how that has blown up even more over the past decade, that the recruiting base in their back yard is no longer has much of an advantage as it should have been 5-15 years ago.


Has it impacted recruiting negatively? No.
Overrated or not, MD entered last night ranked 4th.

There is plenty there to build and sustain a National contender.

#159 Mike B

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 11:04 AM

To add to this...does MD moving to the B10 make them less appealing for basketball?

It’s not that the B10 isn’t good at basketball but style of play is usually different compared to the ACC.

I have no idea if recruits or coaches view this as a factor or not but the move to the B10 does make me wonder if MD is still as desirable as we have all assumed it should be for years? I also think with all the AAU stuff and how that has blown up even more over the past decade, that the recruiting base in their back yard is no longer has much of an advantage as it should have been 5-15 years ago.

In watching B10 and ACC challenge, I did not see much different in styles.  


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#160 Ojielo

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:45 PM

In watching B10 and ACC challenge, I did not see much different in styles.  

 The Big10 is more like Arena Football....The ACC is more finesse and athleticism


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