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Addison Russell


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#41 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:07 AM

I get MLBs stance and its not necessarily wrong. However, these types of things are very tricky. Suspended a guy for a half of a season when there is no legal action? How does a player protect themselves from this? Not saying he didn't do something awful; I have no idea. But its just hard for me to understand these types of penalties ahead of due process in the legal system.



#42 russsnyder

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:22 AM


I get MLBs stance and its not necessarily wrong. However, these types of things are very tricky. Suspended a guy for a half of a season when there is no legal action? How does a player protect themselves from this? Not saying he didn't do something awful; I have no idea. But its just hard for me to understand these types of penalties ahead of due process in the legal system.


MLB has obviously taken almost a zero tolerance approach to domestic violence. Further, they have their own investigative division. I have a hard time understanding the process as well. However, I think the whole issue of how MLB treats its accused players puts the MLBPA in an interesting situation. Is this an issue that the players want to take a stand on? I doubt it. The union taking a stand that protects accused domestic abusers would most likely be a PR nightmare for the union.

#43 FlavaDave10

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:24 AM

I'd be very disappointed if the Orioles signed Addison Russell. 

 

1.) He's not good

2.) He's clearly not a very good person


"We're not going to be f***ing suck this year" - Alex Ovechkin

 

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#44 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:42 AM

Russ you are spot on. Its a tough situation for sports to be in. But I had the unfortunate experience having to deal with a couple of sexual harassment claims as a manager (not me but involving an employee under me). Nobody wins here. 

 

I don't think its long before MLB faces a nasty lawsuit when they give a player a big fat suspension beyond when no legal action has occurred. They can only hide behind the CBA for protection so long.


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#45 russsnyder

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:49 AM

Russ you are spot on. Its a tough situation for sports to be in. But I had the unfortunate experience having to deal with a couple of sexual harassment claims as a manager (not me but involving an employee under me). Nobody wins here.

I don't think its long before MLB faces a nasty lawsuit when they give a player a big fat suspension beyond when no legal action has occurred. They can only hide behind the CBA for protection so long.

The one thing that MLB does when a player is being investigated is to place them on administrative leave. ( A paid suspension.) In theory, if a player is found to be wrongly accused, they keep their pay. In German's case, I believe he has to forfeit the pay he received during his administrative leave.

It is a tricky situation. MLB obviously doesn't want a potential domestic abuser playing during the investigation. I guess the trade off is the paid suspension for the player. It would really be shitty if the player was wrongly accused. But this is where we are presently.

Oh yeah, I don't envy your work situations. I was a witness to sexual harrassment years ago and I had a meeting with a couple of corporate officers. You're correct, it never seems to end up well. The offending manager was transferred and the target eventually quit.

#46 DJ MC

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 01:15 PM

I get MLBs stance and its not necessarily wrong. However, these types of things are very tricky. Suspended a guy for a half of a season when there is no legal action? How does a player protect themselves from this? Not saying he didn't do something awful; I have no idea. But its just hard for me to understand these types of penalties ahead of due process in the legal system.

 

Just because there is no legal action doesn't mean there isn't evidence.


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#47 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 03:32 PM

Just because there is no legal action doesn't mean there isn't evidence.

For sure. Still a sticky wicket.



#48 dude

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 04:40 PM

MLB has obviously taken almost a zero tolerance approach to domestic violence. Further, they have their own investigative division. 

 

So I agree with this and I think we should all agree this is true.

 

I have a hard time understanding the process as well. However, 

 

....regardless of whether we understand their process or not, would we agree that they aren't trying to cut Addison Russell some kind of a break? 

 

In other words....that the process (whatever it is) would be equally applied to each case?

 

I don't think we know what Domingo German is even accused of doing (do we?) but it doesn't seem to rise to a criminal level.  If he knocked her out or threw her down a staircase or something extreme like that (we've seen those instances with athletes on video)...he'd have gotten more than 81 games, right?  One year....at least?

 

Could we agree that [what Addison Russell is accused of doing] has to be orders of magnitude worse than whatever Domingo German did?

 

...and yet Russell got half the suspension that [one-time-incident] guys like Osuna and German (and others) got.

 

So you look around and see where there's any other corroborating actions.

 

What did the Cubs do?  Theo? Maddon? Team-mates?  All of them could have simply (and easily) walked away, but they choose not to.

-------------

 

I know we're content with losing, ....

 

....but if we weren't and Hyde (he was there) signed off on it, I'm not sure why anyone else should have issues with it. 



#49 Mackus

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

A lot of specious logic to come to the conclusion that Russell's ex-wife must be a liar because Domingo German got a longer suspension. If you really wanna call her a liar just come out and do it. Don't hide behind Theo Epstein and Joe Maddon and an obviously untrue assumption that future applications of suspension lengths are based on past suspensions.
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#50 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 05:49 PM

If the process is spelled out to the teams, is used consistently, and the resulting penalties are consistent then nobody can really gripe too much. Where I have problem is when its inconsistent or its reliant on just what somebody says.


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#51 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 06:10 PM

If the process is spelled out to the teams, is used consistently, and the resulting penalties are consistent then nobody can really gripe too much. Where I have problem is when its inconsistent or its reliant on just what somebody says.

 

Well, yeah, everybody has a problem with that, not just you.  Luckily, that's not what's happening here.



#52 russsnyder

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 06:11 PM

So I agree with this and I think we should all agree this is true.


....regardless of whether we understand their process or not, would we agree that they aren't trying to cut Addison Russell some kind of a break?

In other words....that the process (whatever it is) would be equally applied to each case?

I don't think we know what Domingo German is even accused of doing (do we?) but it doesn't seem to rise to a criminal level. If he knocked her out or threw her down a staircase or something extreme like that (we've seen those instances with athletes on video)...he'd have gotten more than 81 games, right? One year....at least?

Could we agree that [what Addison Russell is accused of doing] has to be orders of magnitude worse than whatever Domingo German did?

...and yet Russell got half the suspension that [one-time-incident] guys like Osuna and German (and others) got.

So you look around and see where there's any other corroborating actions.

What did the Cubs do? Theo? Maddon? Team-mates? All of them could have simply (and easily) walked away, but they choose not to.
-------------

I know we're content with losing, ....

....but if we weren't and Hyde (he was there) signed off on it, I'm not sure why anyone else should have issues with it.

I don't understand the process because I am not privy to it. That also does not mean that I have real issue with how these cases have been handled by MLB. I am also not going to judge whom actions were worse between German and Russell. Further, it is immaterial to me how Cubs management or Russell's teammates treated Russell after the suspension. He's a teammate. I played ball in college with guys that I thought were jerks off the field. They were my teammate on the field. I don't think Russell's talent level is worth the possible distraction. However, I am not going to be up in arms if the Orioles sign him.
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#53 bmore_ken

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:43 PM

I don't understand the process because I am not privy to it. That also does not mean that I have real issue with how these cases have been handled by MLB. I am also not going to judge whom actions were worse between German and Russell. Further, it is immaterial to me how Cubs management or Russell's teammates treated Russell after the suspension. He's a teammate. I played ball in college with guys that I thought were jerks off the field. They were my teammate on the field. I don't think Russell's talent level is worth the possible distraction. However, I am not going to be up in arms if the Orioles sign him.

That's about where I'm at on it.
 



#54 dude

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:41 PM

A lot of specious logic to come to the conclusion that Russell's ex-wife must be a liar because Domingo German got a longer suspension. If you really wanna call her a liar just come out and do it. Don't hide behind Theo Epstein and Joe Maddon and an obviously untrue assumption that future applications of suspension lengths are based on past suspensions.

 

If you think 100 times the crime deserves half the time, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

I'm not invested in it in any direction.  If they gave him a lifetime suspension, that's OK with me and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

I have a number of issues with the inconsistency of things that were done and said, but I can account for those in different ways.

 

What you can't really account for is MLB doing the minimum, the Cubs holding on and the Players staying in his corner in a case that would seem to carry the maximum penalty and generally the opposite of what happened.

 

You are one that has been outspoken about how terrible a person he is.  You angst isn't with me, I'm only taking my cue from MLB.

 

You seem to believe you have more insight into the situation than MLB Investigators.

 

You've indicated you'd take your judgement over the judgement of Brandon Hyde who was on that team, at that time, with him.



#55 dude

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 11:49 PM

I don't think Russell's talent level is worth the possible distraction. However, I am not going to be up in arms if the Orioles sign him.

 

I wouldn't do anything with him unless they were trying to win.

 

He's in a hole (right or wrong) and it's a tough one to get out of.

 

He makes nothing without opportunity.  He's 26 this month.  

 

The Orioles aren't spending any money and they aren't trying to win so he makes no sense at all (he's not going to create trade value), but (again) if they wanted to try AND Brandon Hyde signed off on it, you could certainly create some multi-year value (team options) out of a deal.

 

Wouldn't be in my top 3 or 4 choices but if you go strictly with the buy low plan, he's a fit.



#56 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 10:50 AM

The best argument for signing Russell is that there isn't a lot of risk. 

You sign him to a 1 year deal, and he's either a good citizen or he's not. Presumably he'd be on his best behavior as he'd be looking to take advantage of the opportunity. 


He has yet to follow-up his '16, but people have long believed in his talent. 

 

If he did perform, you'd have a trade chip, which would be good. 
Of course the other option would be extending him... but that would be a more difficult proposition imo, because then your risk would be increasing. 

 

I totally get A) Wanting the Orioles to be above signing someone with his baggage, and B) Doubting he can be productive. 


I still lean towards just passing.  Just as easy for the Orioles to sign someone like Iglesias, and not have to morally compromise themselves. 



#57 dude

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:42 PM

If he did perform, you'd have a trade chip, which would be good. 

 

Of course the other option would be extending him... but that would be a more difficult proposition imo, because then your risk would be increasing. 

 

I don't think he ever becomes a trade chip.  Certainly not in 3 months.

 

Again, I would go other directions first, but under the conditions I'd need to have met to consider him (both at team and individual level) I'd want to do something that has some real advantage to the team.  He can earn it, but I get something out of it.

 

I'd do 2 years for 5M (there would be several clauses in there) and I'd have five 8M team options.



#58 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:53 PM

It sounds like they're way more likely to sign Iglesias anyway.



#59 BSLRobShields

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 01:56 PM

Yea I don’t see how he would become a trade chip either..at least not one that brings back anything that means anything.

I don’t think I would guarantee him 2 years like Dude said but the idea of team options would be appealing.
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#60 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 02:06 PM

I guess my thinking on that is...  numerous teams would be signing Russell now without the off-field concerns. 

 

If the O's were the team to jump... and if over the 1st half of the season he's playing well, and there are no off-field issues.... it becomes easier for teams to be the next team. 

 

I don't think it would be shocking for him to break out and play well for 3 months. Then depending on need elsewhere, would help determine what you'd get. 

Agree, probably not a ton.  But something. 

 

 

 

I don't think a deal with team options is a bad idea. 
I don't think I'd want to guarantee a 2nd year though.






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