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Addison Russell


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#21 Mackus

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 10:29 AM

dude that seems like an awful lot of effort put in to trying to find a reason not to believe the accuser.

And he's admitted to acting poorly or whatever, obviously without saying exactly which things he did or didn't do.

Signing Russell says you don't care about domestic violence, IMO. If that's what the Orioles wanna put out there, that's their right.
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#22 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 11:29 AM

dude that seems like an awful lot of effort put in to trying to find a reason not to believe the accuser.

And he's admitted to acting poorly or whatever, obviously without saying exactly which things he did or didn't do.

Signing Russell says you don't care about domestic violence, IMO. If that's what the Orioles wanna put out there, that's their right.


I think you are overboard on this.

It doesn’t mean they are ok with it at all.
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#23 DJ MC

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 12:52 PM

I think you are overboard on this.

It doesn’t mean they are ok with it at all.

 

It doesn't mean that they are "OK" with it. It does mean that they don't consider it to be a disqualifying factor, which is not much better when it comes to cases like Russell.


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#24 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:43 PM

Further, what choice did Maddon or his teammates have when it came to Russell being on their team? He was under contract and receiving league mandated counseling. He served his suspension and rejoined the team. To state that the entire Cubs organization does not believe Russell's ex-wife is a stretch. I think it's fair to state that Russell's first round pedigree and past success at the major league level helped Russell keep his job.

 

So that other post was pretty long but I think there's more to look at along lines like this.

 

Doesn't it seem reasonable that Maddon (other coaches) and the other players would provide input to Theo and Jed?

 

Russell was suspended during the 2018 season, he completed his suspension at the beginning of this (2019) season.

 

The Cubs decided to tender Russell a contract for 2019 (ARB1*) for 3.4M.  They didn't have to do that.  They could have non-tendered him and then nobody in the Cubs Organization, the FO, the Manager, the Players has to deal with Russell or the baggage around him.

 

Does anyone believe that they would have made that decision without consulting with those closest around him on the team?

 

If Maddon didn't want him there, that's pretty easy to make happen.  Non-tender.

If Brandon Hyde had issues (he would later get hired by the Orioles), he'd certainly get some input.

If the other players on the team didn't want him there, they'd certainly talk to Hyde or Maddon or someone that they think it's a mistake.

 

Reidy talks about her relationship with Jess Bryant at one point.  My guess is wives groups are probably pretty close knit, they spend a lot of time together at the games and have similar collective challenges.  Wives groups often seem to work together in the community, etc, as part of their inherent responsibilities (we certainly see this with Orioles' wives, right?).  I'd guess it's pretty reasonable that Jess Bryant would have a perspective she'd share with Kris.  Her perspective could certainly (reasonably) influence the things he says about the situation.  I read a statement by Kris Bryant that wouldn't indicate he has concerns.

 

---------------------

 

* Russell was a Super 2 so 2019 was actually his second year of arbitration (2018: 3.2M). COTs uses 4 years of Arbitration, I use ARB0 for Super 2s to keep the other arbitration years aligned outside of Super 2s.



#25 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:49 PM

dude that seems like an awful lot of effort put in to trying to find a reason not to believe the accuser.

 

 I'm simply following the consideration of the people closest to the situation that looked at it.

 

If MLB believed her, why isn't it a 400 game suspension, not the 40 they gave him.

If the Cubs believed her, why did they tender him a 2019 contract?



#26 DJ MC

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:55 PM

 I'm simply following the consideration of the people closest to the situation that looked at it.

 

If MLB believed her, why isn't it a 400 game suspension, not the 40 they gave him.

If the Cubs believed her, why did they tender him a 2019 contract?

 

Because they valued his talent more than his (or their own) character.


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#27 russsnyder

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:00 PM

Because they valued his talent more than his (or their own) character.


This.

As I said in my post. Russell's pedigree and past success factored into the decision to retain him. Besides, Russell had already been with the organization for a couple of years. They knew what they had in Russell.

#28 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:59 PM

Because they valued his talent more than his (or their own) character.

 

So that has nothing to do with MLB's limited action.  Why did they only suspend him for 40 games?



#29 DJ MC

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 04:03 PM

So that has nothing to do with MLB's limited action.  Why did they only suspend him for 40 games?

 

Precedent. They try to suspend him longer, the union (whether they want to or not) files a grievance and probably wins.


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#30 russsnyder

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 04:19 PM

So that has nothing to do with MLB's limited action. Why did they only suspend him for 40 games?


Was he arrested for spousal abuse?

The answer is no.

He was suspended for 40 games and was directed by the league to undergo counseling. I don't believe this is a limited action when you put it in the context that he was never arrested.

#31 Mackus

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 05:19 PM

I'm simply following the consideration of the people closest to the situation that looked at it.

If MLB believed her, why isn't it a 400 game suspension, not the 40 they gave him.
If the Cubs believed her, why did they tender him a 2019 contract?

MLB suspended him before all the details/accusations were made public. Or at least before the article by his ex-wife was published. I don't know if they knew all those details or not.

The Cubs clearly don't care about domestic violence (or are calling his ex-wife a liar) or they'd have released him after the accusations became public and earlier if they knew of all of the accusations before the article came out.
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#32 Mackus

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 05:20 PM

I also can accept MLB issuing a light suspension far more readily than supporting a team employing someone accused of such acts.

Choosing not to employ somebody is anyone's prerogative. MLB saying nobody is allowed to employ that same guy requires more legal support. They aren't the government, but they're much closer to that sort of an entity than is any one team.
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#33 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:12 PM

MLB suspended him before all the details/accusations were made public. Or at least before the article by his ex-wife was published. I don't know if they knew all those details or not.

 

No.  One of her friends [tweeted, Instagram, whatever] that she was being abused and then pulled it down.

 

MLB went to investigate (apparently more than once) and she didn't cooperate with them.

 

THEN she published her abuse manifesto and MLB went back to her (the details of that aren't clear but apparently she spoke with them at some level) and they issued the suspension.


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#34 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:25 PM

Was he arrested for spousal abuse?

The answer is no.

He was suspended for 40 games and was directed by the league to undergo counseling. I don't believe this is a limited action when you put it in the context that he was never arrested.


So you think a 40-game suspension and counseling is appropriate for what she has accused him of?

In most of these cases, there may be an arrest but usually charges aren't filed. The aggrieved party in many of the cases has refused to cooperate with investigators or (after the fact) the Police/Court.

Robert Osuna got 75 games and the woman in his case didn't show up for court and the charges were dropped.

#35 dude

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:53 PM

.... than supporting a team employing someone accused of such acts.


Just discussion. We should agree that neither one of us knows the truth.

....what could Addison Russell do to convince you the accusations weren't true?

There is no evidence that's been made public to support MR's accusations.

Russell's current GF has thrown support his way (she's publicly defended him in the last year)
Russell's sister has went off on his ex (MR) publicly. I guess that could be expected.
Theo went out of his way to wish Russell well and talk about his 'growth' after the recent non-tender including saying this is a 'baseball only' decision. His comment including Melisa Reidy at the end was curious to me.

You've presented an extreme position on his character and guilt in this situation and have expressed serious concern if the Orioles chose to employ him.

Brandon Hyde was his [bench coach-first base coach- bench coach] with the Cubs from 2014-2018.

Let's be clear that the Orioles aren't going to do anything that looks like adding this year, so at a macro level, it's an irrelevant discussion...

...but if Hyde signed off on acquiring Russell....would you view your perspective of Russell based on the accusations as more informed than his?

Is there anything that Addison Russell could do to convince you that he's not who you believe him to be at this point?

#36 russsnyder

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:15 PM

So you think a 40-game suspension and counseling is appropriate for what she has accused him of?

In most of these cases, there may be an arrest but usually charges aren't filed. The aggrieved party in many of the cases has refused to cooperate with investigators or (after the fact) the Police/Court.

Robert Osuna got 75 games and the woman in his case didn't show up for court and the charges were dropped.


Yes.

There were not any criminal charges. Further, MLB investigated and this is what they deemed the punishment to be.

The State pursues charges in some cases as well. Russell was never arrested on domestic violence charges, Osuna was.

#37 Mackus

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:16 PM

Just discussion. We should agree that neither one of us knows the truth.

....what could Addison Russell do to convince you the accusations weren't true?

There is no evidence that's been made public to support MR's accusations.

Russell's current GF (and 3rd baby-momma) has thrown support his way (she's publicly defended him in the last year)
Russell's sister has went off on his ex (MR) publicly. I guess that could be expected.
Theo went out of his way to wish Russell well and talk about his 'growth' after the recent non-tender including saying this is a 'baseball only' decision. His comment including Melisa Reidy at the end was curious to me.

You've presented an extreme position on his character and guilt in this situation and have expressed serious concern if the Orioles chose to employ him.

Brandon Hyde was his [bench coach-first base coach- bench coach] with the Cubs from 2014-2018.

Let's be clear that the Orioles aren't going to do anything that looks like adding this year, so at a macro level, it's an irrelevant discussion...

...but if Hyde signed off on acquiring Russell....would you view your perspective of Russell based on the accusations as more informed than his?

Is there anything that Addison Russell could do to convince you that he's not who you believe him to be at this point?

He's already admitted to doing enough that I would never sign him if I was the Orioles.

Short of her publicly recanting every accusation or someone else coming out and saying they conspired together to create the story, and then Russell coming out and saying he lied about admitting to his bad behavior for...some reason?... nothing would change my opinion on that.

I'm not saying this is enough evidence to convict him and send him to prison. I'm saying it's more than sufficient evidence to never sign him to play for my baseball team. Very different burdens of proof. Very different debts to pay.
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#38 Mackus

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:19 PM

No. One of her friends [tweeted, Instagram, whatever] that she was being abused and then pulled it down.

MLB went to investigate (apparently more than once) and she didn't cooperate with them.

THEN she published her abuse manifesto and MLB went back to her (the details of that aren't clear but apparently she spoke with them at some level) and they issued the suspension.

I had read an article that was published after the suspension began. But it wasn't the original blog that was published, so sorry for getting the timeline confused.

MLB is basing suspension lengths on a higher standard of proof than I think teams need to use for hiring decisions.

#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 05:02 PM

So that has nothing to do with MLB's limited action.  Why did they only suspend him for 40 games?


German just got 81 games (18 games happened last year).
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#40 dude

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 06:04 PM

German just got 81 games (18 games happened last year).

 

I was going to point this out.

 

Domingo German got 81 games.

 

No arrest. 

No pending legal action.

One incident on one night. 

(MLB?) informed through the friend of the woman.






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