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BSL: Lamar. MVP. Inside the Numbers


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#21 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:46 PM

Through their first 16 starts, Jackson has more wins than Mahomes. More Rushing Yards than LaDainian Tomlinson, better passer rating than Brady, higher Y/A than Rodgers, better completion% than Brees (though that one almost feels like a generation ago at this point).

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But yet some people say he needs to be a better passer. I have no idea what numbers they're looking at or what games they're watching. Fools talk to me and the numbers back it up.
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#22 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:47 PM

But yet some people say he needs to be a better passer. I have no idea what numbers they're looking at or what games they're watching. Fools talk to me and the numbers back it up.


So you are fine with Lamar never being better as a passer than he is right now?

You don’t think he needs to improve? You believe he is as good a passing QB as there is in the league?

If the NFL outlawed QBs running, you think he would be a successful drop back, pocket QB right now?
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#23 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:51 PM

Those numbers are unreal.
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"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#24 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 05:53 PM

So you are fine with Lamar never being better as a passer than he is right now?

You don’t think he needs to improve? You believe he is as good a passing QB as there is in the league?

If the NFL outlawed QBs running, you think he would be a successful drop back, pocket QB right now?

It really is best not to engage with the lollipop guild. They aren't capable of logical, open and honest conversations. Just pounding their chests over how good another grown man is performing at his craft.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#25 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:07 PM


I've posted over and over that he's already completing 70% of his passes in the pocket. If he never ran again he would still be a good qb and better than everyone in his draft class. Anyone who doesn't think so is either ignoring the numbers or the film. His passing is already very good and if it gets better he will be elite.
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#26 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:11 PM

It really is best not to engage with the lollipop guild. They aren't capable of logical, open and honest conversations. Just pounding their chests over how good another grown man is performing at his craft.


Sounds like jealousy or envy to me. He's throwing perfect games and you're still complaining about his passing. It gets to a point where you're saying things to make yourself feel good regardless of how stupid it sounds to everyone else.
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#27 Biggsy

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:19 PM

But yet some people say he needs to be a better passer. I have no idea what numbers they're looking at or what games they're watching. Fools talk to me and the numbers back it up.



He does. You think Mahomes doesn't want to improve? You think Brady and Manning went into every offseasons thinking they were good enough?

Jackson has exceeded everyone's expectations. Trust me, I've been on the bandwagon since day 1. I've never doubted his work ethic or ability to improve. But as good as he's been, he is still inconsistent when he is forced to throw a lot. When he is in a rhythm, he's as good as anyone. But even this year, he's had his moments of being off.

The good news is, he seems like he's hard to rattle. Bring a blitz and he stands in and throws a strike to the right WR. Mush rush him and he'll sit back and pick you apart. If nothing is there, he'll just break your spies ankles and pick up big yardage anyway.

The only time I've ever seen him struggle is when the other team gets up early. When he has to play from behind he seems to press and try to do too much. But this is a hard team to get a huge lead on. This offense consistently gets positive yardage.

#28 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:26 PM

He does. You think Mahomes doesn't want to improve? You think Brady and Manning went into every offseasons thinking they were good enough?

Jackson has exceeded everyone's expectations. Trust me, I've been on the bandwagon since day 1. I've never doubted his work ethic or ability to improve. But as good as he's been, he is still inconsistent when he is forced to throw a lot. When he is in a rhythm, he's as good as anyone. But even this year, he's had his moments of being off.

The good news is, he seems like he's hard to rattle. Bring a blitz and he stands in and throws a strike to the right WR. Mush rush him and he'll sit back and pick you apart. If nothing is there, he'll just break your spies ankles and pick up big yardage anyway.

The only time I've ever seen him struggle is when the other team gets up early. When he has to play from behind he seems to press and try to do too much. But this is a hard team to get a huge lead on. This offense consistently gets positive yardage.


We're not talking about improving. That's obvious for any 2nd year qb. Some of the criticism placed on Lamar at this point is by those who who refuse to admit that they were wrong about him in the first place. There's normal conversation about where he's at and then there are others who continue to move the goal posts because they don't want to admit they were wrong. Big difference and they know who they are.
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#29 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:27 PM


Sounds like jealousy or envy to me. He's throwing perfect games and you're still complaining about his passing. It gets to a point where you're saying things to make yourself feel good regardless of how stupid it sounds to everyone else.

I haven't said anything of the sort. Only how glad I am at being wrong. But hey, do your thing.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#30 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:34 PM

I haven't said anything of the sort. Only how glad I am at being wrong. But hey, do your thing. I guess some people enjoy the Ravens more with their dicks in their hands.


Keep talking and you're proving my point.

#31 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:37 PM

Lol. Pure stupidity. What a jerk.
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@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#32 Biggsy

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:47 PM

We're not talking about improving. That's obvious for any 2nd year qb. Some of the criticism placed on Lamar at this point is by those who who refuse to admit that they were wrong about him in the first place. There's normal conversation about where he's at and then there are others who continue to move the goal posts because they don't want to admit they were wrong. Big difference and they know who they are.



Rob definitely rode the fence with Lamar. He was definitely not a Lamar guy. He always just backed it up by saying he had potential. And if he somehow did improve as a passer he had MVP potential. But he has admitted that he has surprised him. He's admitted to not expecting this type of progression so soon. Not sure what you want from him. He's cautiously optimistic. Nothing wrong with that. And if you think Lamar is top tier pocket QB right now, you're just flat out wrong.

#33 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:47 PM

“He can’t throw.”

“Just wait until teams figure him out.”

By now, you’ve heard the criticisms, but with each week, Jackson continues to convert critics into believers.

After throwing for 223 yards, three touchdowns, and posting a perfect quarterback rating (158.3) against the Bengals, Press Box’s Bo Smolka believes those critics are quickly losing material.

https://www.baltimor...ak-the-internet

#34 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:48 PM


Rob definitely rode the fence with Lamar. He was definitely not a Lamar guy. He always just backed it up by saying he had potential. And if he somehow did improve as a passer he had MVP potential. But he has admitted that he has surprised him. He's admitted to not expecting this type of progression so soon. Not sure what you want from him. He's cautiously optimistic. Nothing wrong with that. And if you think Lamar is top tier pocket QB right now, you're just flat out wrong.

He thinks the 70% from the pocket stat is the end all, and that it has NOTHING to do with his legs aiding in that effort.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#35 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:59 PM

Rob definitely rode the fence with Lamar. He was definitely not a Lamar guy. He always just backed it up by saying he had potential. And if he somehow did improve as a passer he had MVP potential. But he has admitted that he has surprised him. He's admitted to not expecting this type of progression so soon. Not sure what you want from him. He's cautiously optimistic. Nothing wrong with that. And if you think Lamar is top tier pocket QB right now, you're just flat out wrong.


I never said that. You're really ignoring everything that was said over the last year. Of course he's not a finished product but there are some who never thought he'd be any good and they made that abundantly clear. Why people feel as though it's necessary to cover for them is laughable to me.
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#36 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:08 PM

“He can’t throw.”

“Just wait until teams figure him out.”

By now, you’ve heard the criticisms, but with each week, Jackson continues to convert critics into believers.

After throwing for 223 yards, three touchdowns, and posting a perfect quarterback rating (158.3) against the Bengals, Press Box’s Bo Smolka believes those critics are quickly losing material.

https://www.baltimor...ak-the-internet


Do you have a pic of Lamar on your ceiling?
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#37 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:12 PM

But yet some people say he needs to be a better passer


Do you understand what this sentence means?

You are sitting here saying he’s not a finished product.

When we say, he needs to be a better passer, that means we don’t think he’s a finished product either.

You are literally arguing against a statement you made yourself.

So, if you also think he needs to improve, why are you crying about this?
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#38 Slidemaster

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:32 PM

Do you understand what this sentence means?

You are sitting here saying he’s not a finished product.

When we say, he needs to be a better passer, that means we don’t think he’s a finished product either.

You are literally arguing against a statement you made yourself.

So, if you also think he needs to improve, why are you crying about this?

I doubt you'll find a single NFL player who considers themselves a finished product.

You always try to improve at everything every year. Frankly, I don't think it's important whether Lamar is currently the best passer, a top 10 passer, or a top 15 passer in the league. He's a top 5 quarterback, and he has done the thing that allows rookies to turn into successful veterans - work his ass off and improve.

SO many talented rookies (QBs and otherwise) have failed at this. They can't read a defense, they can't make the throws, they can't improve their accuracy, they can't get comfortable in the pocket...you name it. Maybe it's because their physical talent runs out at the highest level of competition, or maybe it's mental or attitudinal - the case differs from man to man.

Lamar met the struggles EVERYONE knew he'd have as a rookie, and he overcame them through accountability and ridiculous work ethic. That's the sign of a great player, and one who will be great for a long time. Look at the list of failed or struggling 1st round QBs over the last 5 years:

Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Trubisky
Lynch
Mariota
Bortles
Manziel

They just never got better. They couldn't make the leap.

So, obviously, no, at 22 years old in his 2nd full season, he likely isn't the best pocket passer in the league. Neither was Manning or Brees or Rodgers or Brady. Stop holding him to an impossible standard. He has been every bit as good a QB, however, as any of those guys, and possibly better.

What more do you want?
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#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:35 PM

I doubt you'll find a single NFL player who considers themselves a finished product.

You always try to improve at everything every year. Frankly, I don't think it's important whether Lamar is currently the best passer, a top 10 passer, or a top 15 passer in the league. He's a top 5 quarterback, and he has done the thing that allows rookies to turn into successful veterans - work his ass off and improve.

SO many talented rookies (QBs and otherwise) have failed at this. They can't read a defense, they can't make the throws, they can't improve their accuracy, they can't get comfortable in the pocket...you name it. Maybe it's because their physical talent runs out at the highest level of competition, or maybe it's mental or attitudinal - the case differs from man to man.

Lamar met the struggles EVERYONE knew he'd have as a rookie, and he overcame them through accountability and ridiculous work ethic. That's the sign of a great player, and one who will be great for a long time. Look at the list of failed or struggling 1st round QBs over the last 5 years:

Mayfield
Darnold
Rosen
Trubisky
Lynch
Mariota
Bortles
Manziel

They just never got better. They couldn't make the leap.

So, obviously, no, at 22 years old in his 2nd full season, he likely isn't the best pocket passer in the league. Neither was Manning or Brees or Rodgers or Brady. Stop holding him to an impossible standard. He has been every bit as good a QB, however, as any of those guys, and possibly better.

What more do you want?



You aren’t following the conversation because if you are, you wouldn’t have posted this.

FWIW, I agree with everything you are saying here but again, it has nothing to do with what the discussion is actually about here.
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#40 85Knight

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:39 PM

It's called moving the goalposts. Constantly saying he needs to improve is just creating a double standard so that you don't have to acknowledge what he's already accomplished. Those who gave him no chance and said he was a mistake know who they are. All of this is just cover up for not admitting that they were wrong.
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