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FiveThirtyEight: There’s A Blueprint For Stopping Lamar Jackson, But Teams Aren’t Using It


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#21 Mike B

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 06:12 PM

I. Would. Pay. To. See. That.

Don't pay by the second, it will cost too much.


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#22 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:37 PM

You still have to make him beat you with his arm.

Good thing is very few teams have the DL talent to dominate the line of scrimmage while not sacrificing on the back end. Add in Lamar's ability to scramble and the Ravens offense become extremely difficult to stop.

 

NE had a good approach but they couldn't  contain Jackson, although they made him inefficient running the ball. In many ways he did end up beating them with his arm although it wasn't anything flashy.


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#23 cprenegade

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:38 PM

I don't think there is a "blueprint" out there, but certainly some ideas.  If it was as easy as a blueprint for stopping any offense then every defense out there would simply use it.  But with discipline, the right scheme, and good personnel, any offense can at least be slowed down.  In 100 years of football, nobody has devised an offense that simply cannot be stopped by anyone.  I doubt the Ravens have come up with that either.  If so, they will be the first and everyone will have that type of offense in three years.  But what the Ravens have right now will be tough for teams to defense because they haven't seen enough of it, and they don't have personnel built specifically to stop it.  But it can be slowed.  KC held them to 13 points in 3 quarters, Cleveland held them to 10 in 3 quarters.  And neither of those defenses it particularly good.  Even Pittsburgh did a fairly good job after the first 10 points.  It took a defensive TD to win that game.  The key is discipline to hold to a scheme you don't play 15 other games, 14 for divisional opponents.  It will make the Ravens a tough match up for anyone.  

 

Remember the run and shoot, the K-gun derivative of the run and shoot, even further back Air Coryell?  All three were touted as unstoppable.   They all did well, but none proved to be unstoppable.  The Ravens have assembled something different, and there is no blueprint that any team can use to be successful against it.  But there are ideas and schemes out there that can have success.  It's just a matter of whether or not a team has the personnel to pull it off, and whether they can implement it on one week of preparation.  



#24 cprenegade

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 07:42 PM

Here's an interesting hypothetical question.  I've heard people compare New England's defense with the 2000 Ravens.  That idea seemed to die last Sunday.  But what would happen if this year's Raven D met the Ravens O, or better yet if the the 2000 Raven's D met the 2019 Raven's O?  I think the Raven's O would smoke this year's D.  The front seven is only average and Jackson would likely tear it up.  But the 2000 Raven's D would stuff this offense, the same way it did Michael Vick whenever they played him.  Just my opinion.  Of course it is nothing but speculation.  



#25 85Knight

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:11 PM

Here's an interesting hypothetical question. I've heard people compare New England's defense with the 2000 Ravens. That idea seemed to die last Sunday. But what would happen if this year's Raven D met the Ravens O, or better yet if the the 2000 Raven's D met the 2019 Raven's O? I think the Raven's O would smoke this year's D. The front seven is only average and Jackson would likely tear it up. But the 2000 Raven's D would stuff this offense, the same way it did Michael Vick whenever they played him. Just my opinion. Of course it is nothing but speculation.


The 2000 Ravens would beat the 2019 Ravens. It would be fun to see Lamar vs. Ray but I don't think Lamar could run for more than 50 yds. against that defense. Every other aspect of the 2019 offense would probably struggle and any turnover would probably do them in. Jamal Lewis and the offense would do just enough to pull it out.

#26 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 10:18 PM

You have to make the Ravens play from behind.

They are such a great front running team because of their rushing game.
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#27 85Knight

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:27 AM

I don't think there is a "blueprint" out there, but certainly some ideas. If it was as easy as a blueprint for stopping any offense then every defense out there would simply use it. But with discipline, the right scheme, and good personnel, any offense can at least be slowed down. In 100 years of football, nobody has devised an offense that simply cannot be stopped by anyone. I doubt the Ravens have come up with that either. If so, they will be the first and everyone will have that type of offense in three years. But what the Ravens have right now will be tough for teams to defense because they haven't seen enough of it, and they don't have personnel built specifically to stop it. But it can be slowed. KC held them to 13 points in 3 quarters, Cleveland held them to 10 in 3 quarters. And neither of those defenses it particularly good. Even Pittsburgh did a fairly good job after the first 10 points. It took a defensive TD to win that game. The key is discipline to hold to a scheme you don't play 15 other games, 14 for divisional opponents. It will make the Ravens a tough match up for anyone.

Remember the run and shoot, the K-gun derivative of the run and shoot, even further back Air Coryell? All three were touted as unstoppable. They all did well, but none proved to be unstoppable. The Ravens have assembled something different, and there is no blueprint that any team can use to be successful against it. But there are ideas and schemes out there that can have success. It's just a matter of whether or not a team has the personnel to pull it off, and whether they can implement it on one week of preparation.


All of that "success" against us and the Ravens are the highest scoring team in the NFL. See how that works when you compare it to other teams and not look at it through a microscope.

#28 mdrunning

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:28 AM

I don't think there is a "blueprint" out there, but certainly some ideas. If it was as easy as a blueprint for stopping any offense then every defense out there would simply use it. But with discipline, the right scheme, and good personnel, any offense can at least be slowed down. In 100 years of football, nobody has devised an offense that simply cannot be stopped by anyone. I doubt the Ravens have come up with that either. If so, they will be the first and everyone will have that type of offense in three years. But what the Ravens have right now will be tough for teams to defense because they haven't seen enough of it, and they don't have personnel built specifically to stop it. But it can be slowed. KC held them to 13 points in 3 quarters, Cleveland held them to 10 in 3 quarters. And neither of those defenses it particularly good. Even Pittsburgh did a fairly good job after the first 10 points. It took a defensive TD to win that game. The key is discipline to hold to a scheme you don't play 15 other games, 14 for divisional opponents. It will make the Ravens a tough match up for anyone.

Remember the run and shoot, the K-gun derivative of the run and shoot, even further back Air Coryell? All three were touted as unstoppable. They all did well, but none proved to be unstoppable. The Ravens have assembled something different, and there is no blueprint that any team can use to be successful against it. But there are ideas and schemes out there that can have success. It's just a matter of whether or not a team has the personnel to pull it off, and whether they can implement it on one week of preparation.

Extreme weather was anathema to those types of offenses. Remember when Air Coryell grounded to a halt in Cincinnati like the Wermacht at Stalingrad? It couldn't function in cold weather. The Run and Shoot was exposed as being too one-dimensional as a base offense since it was strictly a pass-first formation.

I still think the best way to for defenses to combat the Ravens is pressure Lamar from different places on the field. Make him try and guess where it's coming from and hit it often. Cleveland did probably the best job thus far, sacking Lamar four times and pressuring him 16 or 17, I can't remember exactly. That worked reasonably well since the Ravens were playing from behind virtually the entire day.

#29 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 11:51 AM

You have to make the Ravens play from behind.

They are such a great front running team because of their rushing game.

 

Yeah, I think this is it. I think teams are going to, in the second half, really put pressure on the team. The no huddle is an example, but deep shots, lots of blitzes, all out pressure to force the Ravens into a decision.

 

If you're losing by 4 or 14 the Ravens can cause teams the same fits. I'd want to hit them with some splash plays on either side of the ball and hope it rattles Lamar or the coordinators on either side. 

 

The trade off is what happened to the Pats. They ran no huddle from the start, had two three and outs, and boom, they were down 17-0 with no rhythm and a tired defense. 



#30 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 11:59 AM

Yep.

In other words, attack/exploit the vulnerable defense of the Ravens and get up on the scoreboard.

Then make Lamar more one dimensional and turn him into a passer.

No one is afraid of Lamar the passer.
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#31 Mike B

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 12:11 PM

Lamar's passing is improving.  He still needs to work on the deep throws but I can live 64.3%.


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#32 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:14 PM

Lamar's passing is improving. He still needs to work on the deep throws but I can live 64.3%.


The completion% is fantastic. Love what I’m seeing there.

But he still isn’t consistently attacking you down the field and you aren’t really worried about anyone outside of Andrews and Brown and even Brown is showing to be vulnerable to press coverage.

I also still don’t buy Roman as some great schemer of pas plays.

Add all of it up and I want the Ravens throwing the ball on me.
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#33 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:17 PM

Lamar's ability to scramble is still an equalizer. He can pick up chunks of yards with his legs and he can make the throws he needs to in order to keep the chains moving.


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#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:11 PM

Lamar's ability to scramble is still an equalizer. He can pick up chunks of yards with his legs and he can make the throws he needs to in order to keep the chains moving.


No doubt...but I still want him to be a passer. I still want the team to go away from the run and be a passing team.
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#35 ravens82

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:22 PM

The completion% is fantastic. Love what I’m seeing there.

But he still isn’t consistently attacking you down the field and you aren’t really worried about anyone outside of Andrews and Brown and even Brown is showing to be vulnerable to press coverage.

I also still don’t buy Roman as some great schemer of pas plays.

Add all of it up and I want the Ravens throwing the ball on me.

 

While teams would like to force Lamar to pass to beat them, it's easier said than done.  Roman's schemes and Lamar's reads put the ball carriers in very advantageous positions vs. defenders.  It helps that the ball carriers have top tier speed (Jackson, Hill) and/or power (Ingram, Edwards).  Also, the team sticks with the run, even when behind.  They've resisted the urge to start throwing too much.

 

Lamar is distributing the ball fine among his TEs,  Boyle was his favorite target vs Pats and I think he's comfortable targeting Hurst as well.  He does have the best chemistry with Andrews as we saw on the big 3rd down completion.

 

I'd like to see him target WRs more.  Brown is his favorite, but he's still not 100% healthy.  Snead is a good possession receiver, but I still feel like Boykin is being underused.



#36 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:55 PM

While teams would like to force Lamar to pass to beat them, it's easier said than done. Roman's schemes and Lamar's reads put the ball carriers in very advantageous positions vs. defenders. It helps that the ball carriers have top tier speed (Jackson, Hill) and/or power (Ingram, Edwards). Also, the team sticks with the run, even when behind. They've resisted the urge to start throwing too much.

Lamar is distributing the ball fine among his TEs, Boyle was his favorite target vs Pats and I think he's comfortable targeting Hurst as well. He does have the best chemistry with Andrews as we saw on the big 3rd down completion.

I'd like to see him target WRs more. Brown is his favorite, but he's still not 100% healthy. Snead is a good possession receiver, but I still feel like Boykin is being underused.


But this goes back to my point of needing to get ahead of the Ravens on the scoreboard.

If you make them get away from the run and make them more one dimensional, it will make their offense easier to defend. I think that’s the game plan.

They just aren’t the team you want to get behind on the scoreboard. You can’t really stop them if you do. You have to hope they make mistakes, like we saw against NE.(and then it didn’t end up mattering)

It goes back to attacking the defense.
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#37 Bmore Irish

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:16 PM

Obviously we all want to see Lamar continue to improve as a passer, especially downfield. But I don't care how proficient he becomes from the pocket, I don't ever want to see the running aspect go away. More balanced, sure, but he's so uniquely gifted in that aspect of his game that it should be a focus of the offense as long as he's physically capable of it.


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#38 ravens82

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:52 PM

But this goes back to my point of needing to get ahead of the Ravens on the scoreboard.

If you make them get away from the run and make them more one dimensional, it will make their offense easier to defend. I think that’s the game plan.

They just aren’t the team you want to get behind on the scoreboard. You can’t really stop them if you do. You have to hope they make mistakes, like we saw against NE.(and then it didn’t end up mattering)

It goes back to attacking the defense.

 

It's hard as a Ravens fan to view the defense as a weak point to be attacked.  Honestly, since they reshuffled the LBs and now got the Peters/Humphrey/Smith trifecta at corner, the defense is looking pretty good. Without unforced errors (e.g. muffed punts), opposing teams will have a tough time getting up big on the Ravens.



#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:54 PM

It's hard as a Ravens fan to view the defense as a weak point to be attacked.  Honestly, since they reshuffled the LBs and now got the Peters/Humphrey/Smith trifecta at corner, the defense is looking pretty good. Without unforced errors (e.g. muffed punts), opposing teams will have a tough time getting up big on the Ravens.


Don’t disagree but I do think it’s the best recipe.

You have to make Lamar a passer.
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#40 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:07 PM

No one is afraid of Lamar the passer.

 

I don't agree with this. 

Teams aren't just stuffing the box and daring Lamar to throw. You rarely see teams going Cover 0 because Lamar makes them pay. The throw to Andrews in the Pats game, the throw to Brown in the Arizona game are just some examples. Teams are staying deep because they can be beaten over the top and they want to contain it. 

 

They are far less afraid of Lamar the passer but for the moment are still willing to trade off a grinding move the chain type defense vs overselling to stop the run. 

 

I think this is the interesting thing to watch in the second half. Are teams going to start to really try and force Lamar to truly beat them with his arm and if they do, how does he respond. 






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