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FanGraphs: Whitaker, Evans, and Munson Get Long-Overdue Turns on Modern Baseball Ballot


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 04:18 PM

FanGraphs: Whitaker, Evans, and Munson Get Long-Overdue Turns on Modern Baseball Ballot



#2 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 04:32 PM

Evans, yes. But only as he goes in as an Oriole. ;)

 

I don't see Whitaker or Munson as HOF-level players. Munson for sentimental reasons, maybe. But I suppose if Baines got in it's going to become the Hall of Very Good.


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#3 DJ MC

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 04:51 PM

Evans, yes. But only as he goes in as an Oriole. ;)

 

I don't see Whitaker or Munson as HOF-level players. Munson for sentimental reasons, maybe. But I suppose if Baines got in it's going to become the Hall of Very Good.

 

By fWAR (68.1), Whitaker is ninth among second basemen, ahead of Craig Biggio and Roberto Alomar, both of whom have at least 400 more career PAs, and Ryne Sandburg, 700 PAs behind but also 7 WAR behind.

 

By bWAR (75.1), the only eligible (and not being kept out for valid or invalid reasons) player with more not in the Hall of Fame is Bill Dahlen, and he's almost 3 wins ahead of Derek Jeter, who is about to go in first-ballot. 


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#4 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 12:57 PM

FanGraphs: Previewing Sunday's Modern Baseball Era Committee's Vote



#5 DJ MC

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:43 PM

Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons.
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#6 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:09 PM

The great Peter Gammons has been pushing for Simmons forever. Very cool. 


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#7 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:10 PM

I mean it took this long for Marvin Miller to get in? What are we even doing here?

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#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:55 PM

Yea that’s one of the dumbest things ever.

Should have been in decades ago.

Looking at his stats, I don’t see why Simmons should be in.
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#9 mweb08

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 10:18 PM

Yea that’s one of the dumbest things ever.

Should have been in decades ago.

Looking at his stats, I don’t see why Simmons should be in.


He's pretty close to being an average HOF for a catcher according to JAWS, and using the same metric, is the 10th best ever at that position.

Obviously counting stats aren't kind to catchers, so there has to be an adjustment.
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#10 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 10:37 PM

He's pretty close to being an average HOF for a catcher according to JAWS, and using the same metric, is the 10th best ever at that position.

Obviously counting stats aren't kind to catchers, so there has to be an adjustment.


If you’re a fan of JAWS I recommend putting Jay Jaffe’s Cooperstown Casebook on your Xmas list. A good read
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There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#11 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:16 AM

Here's Posnanski on Simmons's HOF case:

 

5. Ted Simmons

Key stat: Simmons has the second-most hits (2,472), doubles (483) and RBIs (1,389) of any catcher in baseball history.

 

There are, best I can see, three reasons that Simmons is not in the Hall of Fame already. The first is that his last few seasons were not very good and this probably influenced voters.

 

The second is that there was a perception — surely overblown — that Simmons was a poor defensive catcher. He did lead the league in passed balls three times, but there are numerous other stats and studies that show he was probably an average or above-average catcher overall in his prime.

 

The third reason, and the biggest one, I think, is that Simmons was a contemporary of three of the greatest catchers in baseball history — Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk and Gary Carter. He was clearly the fourth-best of the group and, as such, he didn’t feel like a Hall of Famer to most. How good could he have been if he was fourth-best in his own time?

 

But we now can see that the Bench-Fisk-Carter period was just an odd confluence of greatness. By WAR, Bench, Carter and Fisk rank first, second and fourth all-time in baseball history. Simmons ranks ninth, and he’s the only one in the Top 10 who is not in the Hall of Fame.

 

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#12 OldSchool

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Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:35 PM

Dale Murphy got hosed again.






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