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BSL: Ravens Passing Plays in the First Half Against Pitt


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#1 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:14 PM

I checked out the plays from the first half in the Pitt game. 

 

https://www.baltimor...-vs-pittsburgh/

 

Do you think this is too much onus on Roman?

Not enough responsibility for Lamar? 

 

Seeing anything from these shots that I missed? 


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#2 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 06:44 PM

An extensive and worthwhile look from Jordan here. 



#3 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:45 PM

I definitely agree the route combinations are head-scratching at times. I also wonder how much freedom Lamar has to audible at the LoS, it doesn't seem like he can check into an optimal play call.

 

A few things I did like in this game were Hayden Hurst and Willie Snead. I want to see more of them across the middle of the field. Drags, in routes, slants. Run the go route with Hollywood or Boykin in the slot and have the outside receiver come underneath. That and the play where the slot comes across the formation was open almost every time with the clear out running over top.

 

Hands Hurst needs to be incorporated more into the offense because he actually has some playmaking ability.


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#4 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:14 AM

I wonder how much audible ability Jackson has? We heard Flacco in year 11 say things like "I just run the plays that are called."

 

I feel like teams are learning to contain Lamar's running ability the best they can. He hasn't taken off for a 20+ yarder in a while. He was picking up 10 yard chunks with ease in the Cardinals game. Pittsburgh looked like they did the best at it. He would go to take off and have to stop suddenly when a defender flashed in his lane. 

 

Looked like last year, and even early this year, that receivers got a little extra separation than they did when there was no threat of running from the QB. Last couple games the Ravens are struggling to get that. Or Jackson isn't finding them, like the one graphic of, was it Hurst, or Boyle wide open on in the flat. 

 

Last week was easily the most vanilla offense we've seen in the Jackson era. It took 3 quarters til we saw a simple play action. I like the commitment to run. But base your passing game off of that. There were no boot legs, no moving the pocket. No wildcat. The Steelers never had to really guess at anything. 


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#5 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:30 AM

1) - Play 1) Yeah, that's frustrating. Jackson actually has a pocket there, and you've got receivers and defenders bunched. 

 

2)  - Play 2) Would be interesting to see when they got to the line. You are looking at 8 in the box, with the 2 additional defenders creeping.. audible and spread Pittsburgh out. 

 

3) - Play 3) 3 covered WR's and you are right, 86 (?) there open vs. 26. The 3 covered WRs all in the middle of the field. Move to the sidelines, and pull the S help.

 

4) - Play 4) I'd like to see Jackson take off there. Make them pay for continuing to drop defenders. 



#6 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 07:32 PM

Football Outsiders: Word of Muth: Ravens' Mixed Bag
https://www.football...avens-mixed-bag



#7 ravens82

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:36 PM

I wonder how much audible ability Jackson has? We heard Flacco in year 11 say things like "I just run the plays that are called."

 

I feel like teams are learning to contain Lamar's running ability the best they can. He hasn't taken off for a 20+ yarder in a while. He was picking up 10 yard chunks with ease in the Cardinals game. Pittsburgh looked like they did the best at it. He would go to take off and have to stop suddenly when a defender flashed in his lane. 

 

Looked like last year, and even early this year, that receivers got a little extra separation than they did when there was no threat of running from the QB. Last couple games the Ravens are struggling to get that. Or Jackson isn't finding them, like the one graphic of, was it Hurst, or Boyle wide open on in the flat. 

 

Last week was easily the most vanilla offense we've seen in the Jackson era. It took 3 quarters til we saw a simple play action. I like the commitment to run. But base your passing game off of that. There were no boot legs, no moving the pocket. No wildcat. The Steelers never had to really guess at anything. 

 

Jackson had a 36 yard run and averaged 8 YPC vs. the Bengals.   The Steelers DL is just far better than the Bengals.  I think Jackson has less need to "audible" because a lot of the plays are already designed to give him the flexibility to hand it off, throw the pass, or run it himself.

 

I do agree we need to see more bootleg action and screen passes.



#8 jamesdean

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 05:41 AM

Jackson had a 36 yard run and averaged 8 YPC vs. the Bengals.   The Steelers DL is just far better than the Bengals.  I think Jackson has less need to "audible" because a lot of the plays are already designed to give him the flexibility to hand it off, throw the pass, or run it himself.

 

I do agree we need to see more bootleg action and screen passes.

We rarely ever see draws or quick hitting trap runs either.  Most of the screen passes they've attempted over the last several years were usually blown up so I have a feeling Harbaugh/OC's decided to just abandon the idea. 



#9 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 10:20 AM

Jackson had a 36 yard run and averaged 8 YPC vs. the Bengals.   The Steelers DL is just far better than the Bengals.  I think Jackson has less need to "audible" because a lot of the plays are already designed to give him the flexibility to hand it off, throw the pass, or run it himself.

 

I do agree we need to see more bootleg action and screen passes.

 

Did you look at the graphics? In non-read option plays when teams think Baltimore is going to pass, they are loading up the weakside of the formation because they know everything is being run towards the weakside in terms of crossers, drags, and slants. You're getting pure one on one blocking formations at the LB with the RB being a free uncovered man and you still aren't audibling into the run.

 

The point isn't that we've had success elsewhere (that's the stubborness of the Ravens to begin with) it's that there are better plays in those situations if you have a simple off tackle audible run in the arsenal. The first thing Lamar should do is line up and count the defenders. If it's unbalanced weak against the run, that audible should be built into every passing play, IMO. This is simple stuff. Stop trying to outsmart the other team and yourself because you do other things well and start to take the basic stuff being handed to you. 



#10 ravens82

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 12:06 PM

Did you look at the graphics? In non-read option plays when teams think Baltimore is going to pass, they are loading up the weakside of the formation because they know everything is being run towards the weakside in terms of crossers, drags, and slants. You're getting pure one on one blocking formations at the LB with the RB being a free uncovered man and you still aren't audibling into the run.

 

The point isn't that we've had success elsewhere (that's the stubborness of the Ravens to begin with) it's that there are better plays in those situations if you have a simple off tackle audible run in the arsenal. The first thing Lamar should do is line up and count the defenders. If it's unbalanced weak against the run, that audible should be built into every passing play, IMO. This is simple stuff. Stop trying to outsmart the other team and yourself because you do other things well and start to take the basic stuff being handed to you. 

 

Just so I'm clear, when you say "audible" you mean the QB changing the play at the LoS prior to the snap vs. multple-option-type plays where the QB reads and reacts to the defense after the snap?  I think Lamar is doing plenty of the latter; not sure about the former.



#11 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 12:13 PM

Just so I'm clear, when you say "audible" you mean the QB changing the play at the LoS prior to the snap vs. multple-option-type plays where the QB reads and reacts to the defense after the snap?  I think Lamar is doing plenty of the latter; not sure about the former.

 

Right, that's exactly what I mean. I haven't gotten to see the coaches film of the Cinci game so I'm interested to see if teams continued the trend of staying heavy to the weak side (which really just means they don't think the Ravens will run out of dedicated shotgun formations.

 

We need to run out of passing formations and pass out of running formations more, IMO. And do so when the defense lines up exactly as you'd expect. So those need to be built in LOS audibles. 



#12 ravens82

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 12:40 PM

Right, that's exactly what I mean. I haven't gotten to see the coaches film of the Cinci game so I'm interested to see if teams continued the trend of staying heavy to the weak side (which really just means they don't think the Ravens will run out of dedicated shotgun formations.

 

We need to run out of passing formations and pass out of running formations more, IMO. And do so when the defense lines up exactly as you'd expect. So those need to be built in LOS audibles. 

 

I'm guessing that post-snap option-play reads are fairly simple (e.g. react based on what the LB does), whereas pre-snap reads might be harder depending on the degree of disguise.



#13 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 12:53 PM

I'm guessing that post-snap option-play reads are fairly simple (e.g. react based on what the LB does), whereas pre-snap reads might be harder depending on the degree of disguise.

 

It'd be helpful if you just scrolled through my article. Lots of screen shots that show pre-snap just counting heads on the ball and which side guys lined up that there was no disguise on the helmet count. Teams seem to know what Baltimore is trying to do and Baltimore seems to have no reservation hiding it. 

 

To me, this is why everything feels so hard. Presnap isn't just about guessing the coverage that's coming, it's also about taking what the opponent is giving you and if that's an off tackle run out of shotgun...so be it. 



#14 ravens82

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:33 PM

It'd be helpful if you just scrolled through my article. Lots of screen shots that show pre-snap just counting heads on the ball and which side guys lined up that there was no disguise on the helmet count. Teams seem to know what Baltimore is trying to do and Baltimore seems to have no reservation hiding it. 

 

To me, this is why everything feels so hard. Presnap isn't just about guessing the coverage that's coming, it's also about taking what the opponent is giving you and if that's an off tackle run out of shotgun...so be it. 

 

I read the article.  Maybe Roman was expecting more disguises from Pittsburgh?  If it's truly just counting heads on each side, I wonder why they wouldn't do it.  Counting pre-snap is no harder than reading/reacting with 300-lb guys coming at you.






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