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BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?


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#141 Mackus

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:24 PM

Yeah I’m not sure. They came up with it in 2011. So you had Vick and Cam, Tebow, was Josh Freeman really a runner? Next year you had RG3 and Russ Wilson join the fold. I would think they accounted for it in some way. But Lamar is going to break all of Vick’s records

 

They definitely account for it in some way.  The main driver behind inventing it was to include rushing and sacks to the completions, incompletions, yards, TDs and INTs that QB Rating uses.  And I have little problem believing that they do a good job of accounting for the value added by most QB rushes.  

 

Lamar simply rushes so much that I think it probably breaks the model.  Modeling extremes is very difficult, no matter what you're trying to model.  I would imagine that Drew Brees and his insane completion percentage is also a difficult thing to accurately assess the value of.  


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#142 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:33 PM

Regarding QBR, if you sort on passing EPA alone, Lamar is right behind our good friend Joe Flacco - 13th in the NFL.

 

Total EPA he is 5th in the NFL (Rushing he is obviously in 1st by a wide margin). This is all before it is normalized by play number and whatever other factors they use.

 

Total QBR he is 6th fwiw

 

Of course week 1 is going to weigh very strongly in the pass EPA, but he was actually better in week 2 according to this metric. Week 5 was the only week he was really bad as a passer although weeks 3 and 4 he was below average.


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#143 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:38 PM

Lamar has been nothing short of amazing in terms of his ability to hold the ball btw. 

 

He was awful holding the ball last year. I can't remember a fumble this year. (Pro Football Reference says he has two, were those on snaps? I honestly can't remember them). 

 

I also think this bodes really well. I felt like last year, if they could clean up the fumbles lost alone and do everything else exactly the same he'd take huge strides forward. He's obviously done more than that. 

 

But to me the lack of fumbles is a cue to his ability to focus on weaknesses and clean them up and fix them, too. 



#144 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:39 PM

At-least 1 was on a snap Jordan.

The interesting thing was that the coach he worked with on his passing and fundamentals this summer (2019) said, his ball control would improve after next summer (2020) when they worked on his hand placement on the football... that they didn't address that this summer, as didn't want to give him too much to work on.


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#145 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:17 PM

That's really interesting, maybe it was just a concentration thing more than a technical thing. 



#146 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:23 PM

Good point about him holding onto the ball.

I haven’t even thought about that so far.
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#147 bmore_ken

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:47 PM

That's really interesting, maybe it was just a concentration thing more than a technical thing. 

I chalk it up to rookie nerves



#148 bmore_ken

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:48 PM

"Garbage Time", "Throw out Miami game".

 

You sure do have a lot of disqualifiers when discussing Lamar.

He always has a reason to minimize LJ's good moments



#149 85Knight

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:01 AM

Jamison Hensley
ESPN Staff Writer

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson through six games: -His 460 yards rushing ranks 8th in NFL -His 1,507 yards passing ranks 12th in league -His offense ranks No. 1 in NFL with 450.7 yards per game

#150 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 05:22 AM

Jamison Hensley
ESPN Staff Writer

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson through six games: -His 460 yards rushing ranks 8th in NFL -His 1,507 yards passing ranks 12th in league -His offense ranks No. 1 in NFL with 450.7 yards per game

Yeah he sucks. We need a pocket passer :mrgreen: 



#151 Bmore Irish

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 07:48 AM

Pocket presence would be one of the biggest improvements to make now, imo. On one hand, some of the big plays come from holding the ball longer and hanging tough in the pocket. On the other hand, we know what he can do with his legs too. Even if he bails from the pocket sooner on some of these sacks, it doesn't have to mean taking off to run immediately.


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#152 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:12 AM

Pocket presence would be one of the biggest improvements to make now, imo. On one hand, some of the big plays come from holding the ball longer and hanging tough in the pocket. On the other hand, we know

what he can do with his legs too. Even if he bails from the pocket sooner on some of these sacks, it doesn't have to mean taking off to run immediately.

He needs to be more consistent here. We saw him bail from clean pockets too early in the Pittsburgh game.

He also had issues with being too deliberate. He needs to be more decisive and trust his receivers not named Mark Andrews.


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#153 85Knight

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:18 AM

He needs to be more consistent here. We saw him bail from clean pockets too early in the Pittsburgh game.

He also had issues with being too deliberate. He needs to be more decisive and trust his receivers not named Mark Andrews.


Really? I thought his issue was just the opposite in the Pitt game. He seemed to stay in the pocket too long as it was collapsing around him. I thought he should have taken off sooner and avoided some of those sacks he took.



#154 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:25 AM

Really? I thought his issue was just the opposite in the Pitt game. He seemed to stay in the pocket too long as it was collapsing around him. I thought he should have taken off sooner and avoided some of those sacks he took.


He ran himself into pressure several times and/or did not navigate the space that was available.

He also had players to throw to on seversl occassions and pulled the ball instead.
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#155 Biggsy

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:21 AM

He ran himself into pressure several times and/or did not navigate the space that was available.

He also had players to throw to on seversl occassions and pulled the ball instead.



This is my biggest complaint with him right now. He will have a clean pocket and sense pressure that isn't actually there, then run right into a defender.

I'd agree that pocket awareness and throwing down field when he breaks the pocket are the 2 things he needs to work on the most.

#156 Slidemaster

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:28 AM

This is my biggest complaint with him right now. He will have a clean pocket and sense pressure that isn't actually there, then run right into a defender.

I'd agree that pocket awareness and throwing down field when he breaks the pocket are the 2 things he needs to work on the most.


I wonder if it's harder to make your internal clock run a little bit slower as a quarterback, or to make it run a little faster.

One thing that I am certain of after watching Lamar this year, is that the concerns about his football intelligence we're not founded. I think he makes pretty smart decisions, especially for a twenty-two-year-old. And the attitude and leadership are excellent. His teammates love him and play hard for him.
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#157 Mike B

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:18 AM

I wonder if it's harder to make your internal clock run a little bit slower as a quarterback, or to make it run a little faster.

One thing that I am certain of after watching Lamar this year, is that the concerns about his football intelligence we're not founded. I think he makes pretty smart decisions, especially for a twenty-two-year-old. And the attitude and leadership are excellent. His teammates love him and play hard for him.

i think Lamar is growing into the job.  I still feel like he is a 2 read QB,and as he gets more game time, that will grow and guys like Hurst, Snead will benefit.

Lamar seems like a great kid.  Very likable and very accountable.  There is a lot to like about Lamar.


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#158 Biggsy

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:40 AM

I wonder if it's harder to make your internal clock run a little bit slower as a quarterback, or to make it run a little faster.

One thing that I am certain of after watching Lamar this year, is that the concerns about his football intelligence we're not founded. I think he makes pretty smart decisions, especially for a twenty-two-year-old. And the attitude and leadership are excellent. His teammates love him and play hard for him.


The people that questioned his football IQ were just pretending they ever watched him in college. If you followed him at Louisville, he never seemed like a low football IQ guy. And he never really ever made terrible reads or stupid throws. When he threw INTs it was usually against superior competition, and he had to force things to try and keep his team in the game.


I don't think anyone can question his football IQ, work ethic, and leadership. I love the emotion he shows on the field as well. I loved Flacco, and I loved his cool under any circumstances demeanor. But after a decade, you start to want to see something. Players around you rally to that. It's part of what makes Brees, Rodgers and Rivers great.

I think as he gets older, he'll rely less and less on his legs. He's got the arm to make every throw. I think it's a matter of him learning how to throw guys open.
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#159 Mike B

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 12:02 PM

The people that questioned his football IQ were just pretending they ever watched him in college. If you followed him at Louisville, he never seemed like a low football IQ guy. And he never really ever made terrible reads or stupid throws. When he threw INTs it was usually against superior competition, and he had to force things to try and keep his team in the game.


I don't think anyone can question his football IQ, work ethic, and leadership. I love the emotion he shows on the field as well. I loved Flacco, and I loved his cool under any circumstances demeanor. But after a decade, you start to want to see something. Players around you rally to that. It's part of what makes Brees, Rodgers and Rivers great.

I think as he gets older, he'll rely less and less on his legs. He's got the arm to make every throw. I think it's a matter of him learning how to throw guys open.

I too was a Flacco fan.  I will be watching him tonight, but Lamar, IMO has a chance to really move the Ravens forward over the next few years.  Your point about throwing the receivers open is a good one.  Lamar is 22 years old so plenty of time to learn.


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#160 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 10:13 AM

https://www.espn.com...-14-blind-items

 

Player A: 14 games, 238 carries, 1,341 rushing yards, 5.5 yards per carry, 61 rushing first downs, 12 TDs Player B: 14 starts, 230 carries, 1,271 rushing yards, 5.5 yards per carry, 75 rushing first downs, 8 TDs

 

Player A is Peterson's rookie year. Player B is Lamar through 14 games. 

 

Player A: 61.0% completion percentage, 7.4 yards per attempt, 6.39 adjusted net yards per attempt Player B: 65.0% completion percentage, 7.2 yards per attempt, 6.35 adjusted net yards per attempt

 

Player A is Lamar through 14 games. Player B is Matthew Stafford in the same games. 

 

Player A: 228 completions, 373 attempts, 61.1% completion percentage, 2,764 passing yards, 7.4 yards per pass attempt, 16 TDs, 8 INTs, 89.3 passer rating Player B: 198 completions, 360 attempts, 55.0% completion percentage, 2,673 passing yards, 7.4 yards per pass attempt, 17 TDs, 9 INTs, 84.2 passer rating

 

Player A is Lamar. Player B is McNair in his first 14 starts. 


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