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BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?


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#101 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:12 AM


Then you have to look at posts in totality. What was actually said.

You said, "So the intent of the words, the meaning behind the words, and the opinion they represent are not valid. "

Clearly they are, and can't be dismissed.

If I post 1000s of times about my doubt about Jackson, yeah.... it's fair to say I'm skeptical.
If in those 1000s of skeptical posts, I'm also saying I think things could work out (even if I'm giving low odds)... that part of what was said shouldn't just be dismissed.


Totally understandable. However, if I fail to include that in my post, that doesn't make my argument "terrible." Rather, it makes it somewhat incomplete. Wouldn't you agree?

#102 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:16 AM



I respect the forum you've created here and the community in general, but there is absolutely a journalist or two who post here who are so aggressively combative over anything and anyone that doesn't jive exactly with their own opinion that it gets difficult to take them seriously.


I mean I think you are clearly talking about Rob - you can correct me if I'm wrong.  Rob isn't a journalist, he's an analyst. 

We do have a couple of contributors who are legitimate journalists, but everyone's contributions here are as analysts. 

And where I'll agree with you is that Rob can ratchet up his opinions to a 10, when it isnt needed, and things become more combative than they should be. 

(Your prior example with his response to Ken.)

 

But my last (intended) comment in this regard is that all of our discussions across the board are improved, when we stick to discussion of what was said, vs. putting words, etc that weren't there. 



#103 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:16 AM

Totally understandable. However, if I fail to include that in my post, that doesn't make my argument "terrible." Rather, it makes it somewhat incomplete. Wouldn't you agree?


Yes, I totally agree. 



#104 jamesdean

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:16 AM


Some of us aren't posting under pseudonyms. 

It's not too much to say if you are going to say I said X, to show that I said it. 

What's comical for me, is that I've been defending Jackson since before he was drafted by the Ravens. 

 

And I've argued against many of the points that have been made against him, and continue to be made against him. 

But I don't need to create false statements to better my argument. 

 

Just stick to what was actually said,and continues to be said. That's enough.

That's fine Chris but really, isn't it kind of absurd that this much importance and acrimony is being generated over something as insignificant as a sports opinion or whether it was misinterpreted.  If someone was misrepresenting a comment about your child or your wife or husband and it was having an effect on your life, then sure, I'd be upset too.  And the only reason I'm using a pseudonym is basically because there's a lot of whack-a-doos out there on forums that get this offended and incensed over insinuations and opinions.  You never know. 



#105 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:21 AM

That's fine Chris but really, isn't it kind of absurd that this much importance and acrimony is being generated over something as insignificant as a sports opinion or whether it was misinterpreted.  If someone was misrepresenting a comment about your child or your wife or husband and it was having an effect on your life, then sure, I'd be upset too.  And the only reason I'm using a pseudonym is basically because there's a lot of whack-a-doos out there on forums that get this offended and incensed over insinuations and opinions.  You never know. 


It's just sports talk, it doesn't matter much... it should be fun, totally agree. 

I don't have any problem with you not using your real name btw... my point with that is my name is out there, and I'm glad to be held accountable for the words I did use, just don't want to be held accountable for the words / comments I did not make.



#106 jamesdean

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:23 AM


It's just sports talk, it doesn't matter much... it should be fun, totally agree. 

I don't have any problem with you not using your real name btw... my point with that is my name is out there, and I'm glad to be held accountable for the words I did use, just don't want to be held accountable for the words / comments I did not make.

Fair enough. 



#107 Ricker Says

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:32 AM

So for those of you who had no doubts, do you have little lapel pins made or something that you can wear so everyone knows of your extreme fanboy status? Maybe some nice, comfortable Ravens knee pads to help when you're on your knees worshipping him? What's the deal? Seems kind of weird to me.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#108 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:36 AM

So for those of you who had no doubts, do you have little lapel pins made or something that you can wear so everyone knows of your extreme fanboy status? Maybe some nice, comfortable Ravens knee pads to help when you're on your knees worshipping him? What's the deal? Seems kind of weird to me.

I'm going to ask for some citations of who had "no doubts" please.

Also, a list of criteria for when one's level of fandom qualifies for "extreme fanboy status."

#109 Ricker Says

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:38 AM

People giving other Ravens fans shit for having doubts about Lamar is extreme fanboy status. It's cult like. I'm sick of this garbage. Like Stoner said, this is WAYYYYY worse than the Flacco talk over the years. Get over yourselves.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#110 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:39 AM

First of all, I have had plenty of issues with Ken.  He is a dishonest person in how he represents peoples opinions on a regular basis.  He brings very little substance of his own.  Most of his posts are bolding someone elses thoughts and saying, I agree with that or some variance of that.  That is why my "language" towards him is what it is.  He does this all the time.  Its tiresome that his arguments are basically lies.

 

I mean, I refer you to this post by him:

 

https://www.baltimor...-grow/?p=839311

 

Here is quoting a poster who is saying basically the same thing I did...."no one said can't", "improving more than I thought", etc...I literally said those things before cpgrenade did.  Yet, he quotes him and thanks him for telling the truth and then basically calls me a liar.  How am I supposed to respond to stupidity like that?  He gets what he deserves.

 

As for this particular argument, slidemaster, you are just wrong.  The wording absolutely matters.  If you are going to have a discussion, the discussion should be based around facts, not points you are making up.  I have absolutely stated I have serious doubts about Lamar (and still do).  I have also stated several times that I feel that it was a great trade and one you always make.  If I thought Lamar would never become anything and had no chance of improving, I wouldn't have stated that.  I would have said that its an awful trade.  I would said why are you throwing away a second round pick.  

 

If you want to have an "i told you so" conversation (which I think its too early to have but whatever), what should be said is for those of you who have bashed lamar, said he was unlikely to be a good passer, etc...you appear to be wrong.

 

That is far different than saying, people said he 100% will never be anything.  I am not going to sit here and try to figure out what people actually mean, especially when those people ROUTINELY lie about the stances being taken by people...or, if its not a lie, its a complete misunderstanding that shows awful reading comprehension.

 

So, because of that, I am going to focus on what the actual argument is and yes, their argument is terrible if they are going to argue something that wasn't said.  


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#111 Slidemaster

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 09:52 AM

First of all, I have had plenty of issues with Ken. He is a dishonest person in how he represents peoples opinions on a regular basis. He brings very little substance of his own. Most of his posts are bolding someone elses thoughts and saying, I agree with that or some variance of that. That is why my "language" towards him is what it is. He does this all the time. Its tiresome that his arguments are basically lies.

You use that language with many, many people. It's your sports discussion style. Hyperbolic, over-the-top attempts to discredit, humiliate, or browbeat others into giving up. If people disagree you frequently belittle their opinions or, at times, the person themself. I'm not sure if it's rooted in a need to NEVER admit you're wrong unless it's on your own terms, or a shock-jock style of analysis where you absolutely have to stick to an opinion no matter what as a way to generate the arguments you clearly love, or something else. But it's your M.O. here, to the point that your actual points sometimes get lost because it's hard to find them through all the nonsense.

My opinion, which you will undoubtedly not give a shit about, is that it's embarrassing for you and makes you look terrible, and I say this as someone who has gotten into it with Ken plenty of times over the years.

#112 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:15 AM

You use that language with many, many people. It's your sports discussion style. Hyperbolic, over-the-top attempts to discredit, humiliate, or browbeat others into giving up. If people disagree you frequently belittle their opinions or, at times, the person themself. I'm not sure if it's rooted in a need to NEVER admit you're wrong unless it's on your own terms, or a shock-jock style of analysis where you absolutely have to stick to an opinion no matter what as a way to generate the arguments you clearly love, or something else. But it's your M.O. here, to the point that your actual points sometimes get lost because it's hard to find them through all the nonsense.

My opinion, which you will undoubtedly not give a shit about, is that it's embarrassing for you and makes you look terrible, and I say this as someone who has gotten into it with Ken plenty of times over the years.

You can choose to focus on that if you want.  HOWEVER, what you choose to gloss over is the actual argument and reasoning behind it.  You want to make this about that, have at it.  That's up to you.

 

But, if you want to actual discuss it, you also have to acknowledge everything else...He was wrong.  He lied and his argument was terrible.

 

ANY argument where you are lying and misrepresenting someone's opinions and thoughts is a terrible argument.  I don't care if its sports, politics, religion or anything else.

 

This all started because of his wording.  I simply asked him to show the posts where people said he can't be better.  He proceeded to tell me he wasn't going to do it and then called me a liar.  When he did that, that's when I said his argument is terrible.  If you are going to take that stance and call someone a liar, don't you think that person should have to back up their point?  Do you think Ken did a good job to back up his point?  

 

If you want to stick up for him, have at it.  His argument is wrong and even worse than that, he isn't even willing to try and back up the statement with posts made that show him to be correct. 



#113 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:27 AM

He really is stupid fast

 

https://twitter.com/...3185126400?s=20



#114 jamesdean

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:49 AM

He really is stupid fast

 

https://twitter.com/...3185126400?s=20

And he's deceptively fast.  Most of the time, it just looks like he's coasting down the field.  But when he's heading around the corner, I haven't seen anyone cut him off at the pass yet.  I'm sure it surprises the opposition too when they've got an angle on him and he just blows by them.  Another thing that Lamar is doing this year is holding on to the ball.  That was a real problem last year and he seems to have cleaned that up considerably.  


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#115 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:59 AM

And he's deceptively fast.  Most of the time, it just looks like he's coasting down the field.  But when he's heading around the corner, I haven't seen anyone cut him off at the pass yet.  I'm sure it surprises the opposition too when they've got an angle on him and he just blows by them.  Another thing that Lamar is doing this year is holding on to the ball.  That was a real problem last year and he seems to have cleaned that up considerably.  

Yea, he glides.  There is very little effort in his runs.  Its really incredible to watch.  They asked the Cinci coach about him yesterday and he was just like, you don't see elite athletes at his level that often.  That's pretty high praise considering you are in the NFL, with some of the greatest athletes we have ever seen.


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#116 85Knight

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:57 AM

I'd like to see Jackson's runs kept to a minimum but this is encouraging:

In fact, a study done by Sports Info Solution’s John Verros that found that the “risk for a scrambling quarterback is almost equal to the quarterback who is sacked: once every 91.7 plays for the scrambler, once every 92.5 plays for the guy getting sacked.”
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#117 Mike B

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:06 PM

Yea, he glides.  There is very little effort in his runs.  Its really incredible to watch.  They asked the Cinci coach about him yesterday and he was just like, you don't see elite athletes at his level that often.  That's pretty high praise considering you are in the NFL, with some of the greatest athletes we have ever seen.

I have seen a lot of players and I am  not sure I have ever seen a man, run as effortlessly and effectively as Lamar.  He is nothing short of spectacular.  World Class speed, and the ability to stop and start and cut on the proverbial dime.  I was worried about Lamar as a QB before the year started, and he still needs to get better at making impact throws, but IMO as he gains experience and the impressive talent around him grows, I think we are going to be happy with what we have.


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#118 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

I have seen a lot of players and I am  not sure I have ever seen a man, run as effortlessly and effectively as Lamar.  He is nothing short of spectacular.  World Class speed, and the ability to stop and start and cut on the proverbial dime.  I was worried about Lamar as a QB before the year started, and he still needs to get better at making impact throws, but IMO as he gains experience and the impressive talent around him grows, I think we are going to be happy with what we have.

The next thing he has to do is show that he can beat and perform at a high level against the better teams.



#119 NewMarketSean

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:34 PM

The next thing he has to do is show that he can beat and perform at a high level against the better teams.

 

He's done that except for the playoff game last year.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#120 SportsGuy

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:36 PM

He's done that except for the playoff game last year.


I don’t think he has performed at a high level vs the better teams...I mean, he did nothing vs KC until garbage time this year, for example. You can’t just show up for one quarter.




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