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BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?


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#61 Ricker Says

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:57 PM

It's pointless trying to argue with stupidity.
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#62 hallas

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:59 PM

Some of that is deceiving too because if the garbage time points against KC and Cle.

I only mention that because I don’t look at that offense and say that I feel confident they can score a bunch of points against a good defense, despite them being a top 3 scoring offense.

 

You know, the reason that people harp on you about having an agenda against Jackson is because you're too quick to find reasons why his good performances are invalid, while not accepting defensible reasons why some of his bad stats are the result of bad luck.  You want to write off the Dolphins game because it's the Dolphins.  Okay, I get that.  You want to write off garbage time TDs because the defenses were playing prevent.  Okay, I don't really agree but I understand.  If you did one of the two things, people would probably grumble and go with it.  You want to blame him for the tipped passes that hit his receivers in the chest but ended up in the hands of the defense... again, I don't agree, but I understand.  Bring up any one of those things, and we'd probably grudgingly go with it.  But when you do all three, it comes off as having an agenda/being biased.


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#63 ravens82

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:59 PM


As I said previously... 

 

Some of what you are saying was said above was said... but I don't think it was said that he couldn't improve. Also have to be able to discern between the difference of who said what vs. stating the 'board' said.

 

You are going to have to show me where people were saying he can't improve. 

 

"This is true if you are actually capable of improving. His college history says he really isn’t."

 

https://www.baltimor...e-3#entry814601


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#64 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:01 PM

"This is true if you are actually capable of improving. His college history says he really isn’t."

 

https://www.baltimor...e-3#entry814601


And the rest of the quote you didn't include was.... "Doesn’t mean he won’t buck that trend but cliches aren’t going to get him there. He has to change a lot."



#65 ravens82

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:04 PM


And the rest of the quote you didn't include was.... "Doesn’t mean he won’t buck that trend but cliches aren’t going to get him there. He has to change a lot."

 

Yes that is true, but if you read that entire thread, it was obvious that he felt that Lamar was not LIKELY to improve.  Which is what I said: https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=814689



#66 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:07 PM

Yes that is true, but if you read that entire thread, it was obvious that he felt that Lamar was not LIKELY to improve.  Which is what I said: https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=814689


Yes, and he still has a lots of questions about him.... that doesn't equate to thinking he can't improve, which was something he also said numerous times was possible...even if he thought it was unlikely. 

Hell, he even said at-least 10x Jackson was a dark-horse MVP candidate. 



#67 ravens82

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:13 PM


Yes, and he still has a lots of questions about him.... that doesn't equate to thinking he can't improve, which was something he also said numerous times was possible...even if he thought it was unlikely. 

Hell, he even said at-least 10x Jackson was a dark-horse MVP candidate. 

 

While no one said he can 100% never improve, it was all doubt and negativity:

 

https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=815040

 

Clearly, I'm not the only one on this forum that saw it.


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#68 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:16 PM

While no one said he can 100% never improve, it was all doubt and negativity:

 

https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=815040

 

Clearly, I'm not the only one on this forum that saw it.


That's not the point. 

There is no doubt there was (and continues to be) doubt, pessimism, and negativity from parts of the fanbase and plenty of posters here...

 

What there wasn't, was people saying he couldn't improve. 



#69 ravens82

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:18 PM


That's not the point. 

There is no doubt there was (and continues to be) doubt, pessimism, and negativity from parts of the fanbase and plenty of posters here...

 

What there wasn't, was people saying he couldn't improve. 

 

That he was NOT LIKELY to improve.

 

https://www.baltimor...row/?p=838766



#70 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:21 PM

That he was NOT LIKELY to improve.


Sure, I agree.... plenty of people thought he wasn't likely to improve. 

There is a discernible difference between that and saying a lot of people definitively thought he could not improve. 



#71 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:33 PM

You know, the reason that people harp on you about having an agenda against Jackson is because you're too quick to find reasons why his good performances are invalid, while not accepting defensible reasons why some of his bad stats are the result of bad luck. You want to write off the Dolphins game because it's the Dolphins. Okay, I get that. You want to write off garbage time TDs because the defenses were playing prevent. Okay, I don't really agree but I understand. If you did one of the two things, people would probably grumble and go with it. You want to blame him for the tipped passes that hit his receivers in the chest but ended up in the hands of the defense... again, I don't agree, but I understand. Bring up any one of those things, and we'd probably grudgingly go with it. But when you do all three, it comes off as having an agenda/being biased.


And yet when I would bring up excuses as to why Joe struggled, some of which people are using now for Lamar, I came off as an apologist.

Here’s the thing...I don’t give a rats ass what people think. I’m spouting off facts and largely opinions shared by the scouting community. If all you do is play well against bad teams and suck against good teams, that means something imo. If you or anyone else wants to gloss over that, that’s fine...to me, it means something.

On top of that, I have still noted that even taking out the Miami game that his stats are better than I thought they would be...that I’m excited by his progress and that I think we should all be encouraged.

My only point in all of this is that we need to hold off on talking about him as some great QB. Every time something positive pops up, you get the Lamar fans throwing into people’s faces, lying about their stances and acting like no one can question them. That’s wrong. That point has been articulated and I don’t see how it can be argued against.

I think what should be obvious is that the Ravens made a great trade and that we have a QB that, at the very least, looks to be the QB for the near future. That is exciting for all fans.
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#72 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:35 PM

That he was NOT LIKELY to improve.

https://www.baltimor...row/?p=838766

Do you believe “not likely” and “can’t” mean the same thing?
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#73 ravens82

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:39 PM

Do you believe “not likely” and “can’t” mean the same thing?

 

I never said "can't".



#74 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:44 PM

I never said "can't".

You may not have but others did and that’s the argument.

The argument isn’t whether people said they don’t like his chances.(I fully admit I was one of those). The argument is that people said can’t or, in other words, 100% chance he will never improve.
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#75 bmore_ken

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 07:17 PM

While no one said he can 100% never improve, it was all doubt and negativity:

 

https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=815040

 

Clearly, I'm not the only one on this forum that saw it.

Exactly



#76 cprenegade

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:26 PM

I found this thread funny.  People are moving the goal posts.  It seems like we have a semantics problem.  It started as so many people who said Jackson CAN'T improve or COULD NEVER improve.  I don't remember posts saying that.  I do remember people with doubts, people saying unlikely, myself included.  That is not the same as saying no way, never, 100% positive he will not improve.  Sure there were doubters, I am one of them.  Still am.  My doubt has less to do with Jackson, who I think is very hard worker and better than that a great person, and more to do with my doubt about dual threat QB's.   Haven't seen one hoist a Lombardi trophy yet, and until I do, I will stick with the proven formula of a pocket passer.  

 

I just think the punishment your QB gets running the ball shortens his career.  The best dual threat QB I have ever seen is Cunningham, and even he didn't get to a SB.  Vick had the same types of moves that Jackson has and yet his accuracy was a problem and he never really got it done come playoff time.  

 

I do think Lamar Jackson has improved quite a bit and looks a lot more comfortable running the team than he did last year.  I still think consistency and accuracy are a problem.  But he is better than I thought he would be at this point, and I am willing to admit that.  The schedule is about to turn a lot harder so we will get a better feel for how good he might be.  So far most of the wins have come against teams with losing records.  That's fine, you have to beat those teams.  The next 2 are against teams that aren't quite the same weak sisters of the NFL.  We find out a lot about the Ravens.  Not just their QB, but their entire team. 



#77 cprenegade

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:34 PM

While no one said he can 100% never improve, it was all doubt and negativity:

 

https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=815040

 

Clearly, I'm not the only one on this forum that saw it.

 

But that isn't the same as saying "CAN'T" improve and that is what is being debated here.  Yeah there was negativity, I was one of them.  That is not the same as saying he CAN'T improve.  It is an opinion.  Maybe right, maybe wrong.  People are saying that posts were made saying he CAN'T improve.  I don't read every post made, but I never saw any posts saying CAN'T improve.  Now people want to say that an opinion that he is not likely to improve was the same thing.  No, it is not.  Saying you don't think he will improve is not the same as saying he CAN'T improve.  



#78 85Knight

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 08:46 PM

While no one said he can 100% never improve, it was all doubt and negativity:

https://www.baltimor...brown/?p=815040

Clearly, I'm not the only one on this forum that saw it.


Somehow saying that he'll never improve his completion percentage based on his college numbers, we need to draft a qb in the first round and to top it off he's not intelligent are all different from saying "he can never 100% improve." I have to believe that they can't possibly believe what they are saying because this is a complete joke.

#79 bmore_ken

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:55 PM

"This is true if you are actually capable of improving. His college history says he really isn’t."

 

https://www.baltimor...e-3#entry814601

Exactly. Now wait for the spin.



#80 bmore_ken

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:57 PM

Somehow saying that he'll never improve his completion percentage based on his college numbers, we need to draft a qb in the first round and to top it off he's not intelligent are all different from saying "he can never 100% improve." I have to believe that they can't possibly believe what they are saying because this is a complete joke.

It's called spin. 


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