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BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?


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#21 Ricker Says

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:38 AM


The numbers still count for Tom Brady, Dak Prescott and Philip Rivers against Miami. It just so happens that Lamar Jackson's numbers were better than theirs. So what's the logic in throwing his out?

It's called trying to analyze where he really is right now. This is good business practice. Even logic used by Six Sigma in business evaluation across the globe. Throw out the extremes. You need to stop taking logical, sound analysis personally. It's ridiculous. No one here doesn't want Lamar to be successful. Just stop.
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#22 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:21 AM

It's called trying to analyze where he really is right now. This is good business practice. Even logic used by Six Sigma in business evaluation across the globe. Throw out the extremes. You need to stop taking logical, sound analysis personally. It's ridiculous. No one here doesn't want Lamar to be successful. Just stop.

There is a mathematical way to figure out if the Miami game is by definition an "outlier". Guess it depends on what stats you want to go by. QBR maybe? Probably have to wait until after the season when you have more data points. 


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#23 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:59 AM

There is a mathematical way to figure out if the Miami game is by definition an "outlier". Guess it depends on what stats you want to go by. QBR maybe? Probably have to wait until after the season when you have more data points.


Do you really need a mathematical way to figure out why Miami is an outlier? Can’t you just watch them and figure it out?

They are off to a historically bad start. They have one of the worst 53 man rosters ever assembled. They are total and complete garbage.

It’s great that Lamar did well vs them. It’s great that he did better than they did compared to other QBs. Lots of things go into play in any one game to determine things. So I think you can only take so much away.

Here is what is we know. Lamar made plays in that game, with his arm, that he hasn’t made since. He put up numbers in that game that are clearly an outlier compared to other games. Unfortunately, his terrible game against Pitt is similar to what we have seen from him.

All of the stuff about him improving, still young and not playing a full season is a true. But people are going overboard about him and the way they can’t listen to criticism and arguments about him is pretty pathetic.
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#24 bmore_ken

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 11:24 AM

I don't expect they'll finish in the Top 5 in offense this year, but I believe they could be Top 10.  But nothing they do this week is likely to make you "feel confident" about the offense or Lamar.  Unless they can put up numbers against the Seahawks or Patriots, you won't be convinced, I get it.  But we've come a long way from "Lamar is not likely to improve".


It's funny how no one is owning up to the " he can't improve " statements. All of a sudden nobody said it

#25 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:18 PM

It's funny how no one is owning up to the " he can't improve " statements. All of a sudden nobody said it


Show us where anyone said he can’t improve.
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#26 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 12:30 PM

Do you really need a mathematical way to figure out why Miami is an outlier? Can’t you just watch them and figure it out?
They are off to a historically bad start. They have one of the worst 53 man rosters ever assembled. They are total and complete garbage.
It’s great that Lamar did well vs them. It’s great that he did better than they did compared to other QBs. Lots of things go into play in any one game to determine things. So I think you can only take so much away.
Here is what is we know. Lamar made plays in that game, with his arm, that he hasn’t made since. He put up numbers in that game that are clearly an outlier compared to other games. Unfortunately, his terrible game against Pitt is similar to what we have seen from him.
All of the stuff about him improving, still young and not playing a full season is a true. But people are going overboard about him and the way they can’t listen to criticism and arguments about him is pretty pathetic.


Little more perspective on this....Miami is the worst team in DVOA history as of right now.
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#27 Ricker Says

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 01:13 PM

The 0-5 Redskins are 4 point favorites on the road in Miami this week.
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@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
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#28 85Knight

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 04:07 PM

It's called trying to analyze where he really is right now. This is good business practice. Even logic used by Six Sigma in business evaluation across the globe. Throw out the extremes. You need to stop taking logical, sound analysis personally. It's ridiculous. No one here doesn't want Lamar to be successful. Just stop.


You're losing it.

#29 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 06:31 PM

Do you really need a mathematical way to figure out why Miami is an outlier? Can’t you just watch them and figure it out?

If you want to be smart about it, yeah. If you want to by definition define Lamar’s performance in Miami as an outlier, then yes.

If you want to call it an outlier because it sounds good to you, then no.

And by the way, it might very well be an outlier. And because you have good outliers like that, doesn’t mean you have to have outliers on the low side. You can throw out the Miami game, but keep in the LA playoff game. That’s how the math works. I would just have to do it.
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#30 bmore_ken

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 06:33 PM

Show us where anyone said he can’t improve.

I'm not hunting down posts that you know were made. The most common one was he was inaccurate in college and you can't fix that. You can continue to be intellectually dishonest and claim you didn't see it, but it makes you a liar. 



#31 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 06:50 PM

Some thoughts... 

 

- You can throw out Miami now, they are what they are.  It's fine. Throw it out.   Just at year end, you also throw out the game with the worst results for Jackson.

 

- You can throw out the Miami game, and Jackson is performing at the rate (or slightly better) than I expected from him. Competitive enough,good enough to win games with...  (if the defense was holding up their end). 

 

- Since the defense is not holding up their end, more is going to be asked of Jackson and the offense. Which may or not prove possible here in 2019 given where Jackson and others on the offense are currently in their development. 

 

- People didn't say Jackson couldn't improve. They said with his strong work ethic, and youth... he probably would. They questioned how much, and that even if he improved... if he would be accurate enough. 

 

- The Flacco elite (and then basic competency) discussions were tiresome.  The Jackson discussions are worse. 


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#32 jamesdean

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:45 PM

Some thoughts... 

 

- You can throw out Miami now, they are what they are.  It's fine. Throw it out.   Just at year end, you also throw out the game with the worst results for Jackson.

 

- You can throw out the Miami game, and Jackson is performing at the rate (or slightly better) than I expected from him. Competitive enough,good enough to win games with...  (if the defense was holding up their end). 

 

- Since the defense is not holding up their end, more is going to be asked of Jackson and the offense. Which may or not prove possible here in 2019 given where Jackson and others on the offense are currently in their development. 

 

- People didn't say Jackson couldn't improve. They said with his strong work ethic, and youth... he probably would. They questioned how much, and that even if he improved... if he would be accurate enough. 

 

- The Flacco elite (and then basic competency) discussions were tiresome.  The Jackson discussions are worse. 

My expectations of Jackson as a passer were never far reaching to begin with.  I said I would be happy if he was completing 60% of his passes and so far, he has.  What I loved about him and continue to do so, is how much he made this running attack come alive and how that translated to wins.  I loved every minute of it last year and still do when they've actually committed to it in 2019.  What I don't like is Jackson throwing the ball 35-45 times a game and the Ravens losing.  I know he doesn't like hearing it but the truth is, he's a runner first, a passer second.  That's where his main talent and gifts as an athlete are.  And I don't care how many new pieces you put around him.  I'd hate to hear Dennis Green's exasperated words paraphrased 10 years from now when Lamar is done and gone..."he was who we thought he was...and we forced him to be very ordinary."  



#33 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 07:52 PM

I'm not hunting down posts that you know were made. The most common one was he was inaccurate in college and you can't fix that. You can continue to be intellectually dishonest and claim you didn't see it, but it makes you a liar.


Of course you won’t hunt it down...because it makes your argument look terrible.

When you use the word “can’t” it means 100%.

No one ever said that. Doubts were raised. I was one of the biggest guys against Lamar and even said that you make the deal 100 times out of 100 because of his upside. So no, no one said 100% he can’t improve. That’s a lie.
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#34 Mike B

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:46 PM

Well he had an awful game already...how many are we throwing out?

FWIW, I have no issue throwing out the extremes (ie, the best and worst). I think that’s fair.

A body of work is what should be evaluated.  Lamar is doing better than I expected.  He has much to work on, but he makes plays, even when struggling.  For years, we have heard the Ravens do not have a player that opposing DC's, have to game plan for.  They do now.  Let's be patient and let Lamar grow.


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#35 Mike B

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:54 PM

Some thoughts... 

 

- You can throw out Miami now, they are what they are.  It's fine. Throw it out.   Just at year end, you also throw out the game with the worst results for Jackson.

 

- You can throw out the Miami game, and Jackson is performing at the rate (or slightly better) than I expected from him. Competitive enough,good enough to win games with...  (if the defense was holding up their end). 

 

- Since the defense is not holding up their end, more is going to be asked of Jackson and the offense. Which may or not prove possible here in 2019 given where Jackson and others on the offense are currently in their development. 

 

- People didn't say Jackson couldn't improve. They said with his strong work ethic, and youth... he probably would. They questioned how much, and that even if he improved... if he would be accurate enough. 

 

- The Flacco elite (and then basic competency) discussions were tiresome.  The Jackson discussions are worse

Could not agree wit your last statement more.  I admit to being skeptical about Lamar, before the year began, and still wonder about his ceiling, but he is improving and he is exciting.  


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#36 bmore_ken

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 09:59 PM

Of course you won’t hunt it down...because it makes your argument look terrible.

 

Yet I wasn't the first person to bring it up in this post.  You're  straight up lying if you're claiming you never saw those posts.



#37 bmore_ken

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:00 PM

Could not agree wit your last statement more. 

Agreed as well



#38 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:21 PM

Regarding Miami, for me it is more of an outlier for the Ravens offense, not so much Lamar. He made great reads and great throws in that game no matter what the personnel he was facing. 

 

I think the Ravens took the Dolphins unawares. They weren't expecting Lamar to come out and pass all over them and they were completely unprepared for it. In that sense, it was a job well done by the Ravens coaching staff, but other teams have come around to what the Ravens want to do offensively and now the Ravens have to adapt.

 

Are the numbers going to be inflated because of that week 1 performance? Yes, in a sense. But at the end of the day, numbers are not all that matters in evaluating where Jackson is as a QB.

 

I think he is far ahead of the curve in a lot of ways for a 22 year old QB with 13 games starting experience. He has shown huge improvements this season, and while there are still a lot areas that need improvement some of the biggest questions that I had he has answered. I see no reason why he won't continue to improve and become a very good QB in the NFL. 

 

As far as 2019 is concerned, I think there is still a very good chance the Ravens win the division, but Lamar and the rest of the offense has to be more consistent for that to happen. 


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#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 02:37 AM

Yet I wasn't the first person to bring it up in this post. You're straight up lying if you're claiming you never saw those posts.


I didn’t see them because they didn’t exist.
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#40 russsnyder

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:58 AM

There were doubts that Lamar could improve his accuracy since his college numbers were not that strong. The fact is that he worked extremely hard in the off season to improve his passing and he seems to have improved. I think Jackson's biggest issue going forward is his lack of protection from his O line. The last couple of weeks he has been under duress from the pass rush. Further, Cleveland and Pittsburgh have contained him well when his protection breaks down. It's understandable, but it seems his throwing mechanics break down under consistent pressure.Overall, he has improved as a passer and the overall numbers bear it out.




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