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BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?


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#1 BSLRiversMcCown

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 07:19 AM

BSL: Jackson’s improved, but where does he still need to grow?

https://www.baltimor...till-need-grow/


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#2 85Knight

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 08:09 AM

Very good article. I think we have to keep in mind that Jackson is still a young qb and is going to still have growing pains. I was a little down on him last week but I went back and looked at those drives late in regulation and again in ot and he made some big throws in a highly pressurized situation. That has to help him in his overall growth despite not having his best game. He's already proven what he can do, now becoming more consistent is the next step.

https://www.instagra...d=1sc0xfpigaiob

#3 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 08:30 AM

Would like to know some of these numbers if you throw away the Miami game.
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#4 Mike B

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:28 AM

Would like to know some of these numbers if you throw away the Miami game.

You can't throw away the good, if you are going to keep the not so good.


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#5 85Knight

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:36 AM

You can't throw away the good, if you are going to keep the not so good.


You can if you have an agenda. That's why I posted that IG post. Nonetheless his growth is obvious to even his biggest critics and he'll only get better.
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#6 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:41 AM

You can if you have an agenda. That's why I posted that IG post. Nonetheless his growth is obvious to even his biggest critics and he'll only get better.


To be fair, you are saying Rob has an agenda... and he's posted several times about how excited he is about Jackson's growth this year, and how he respects Jackson's work ethic. 

And at year end it will be fair to remove the Miami game from an evaluation of Jackson's 2019 season... but we will also have to remove Jackson's worst game. 



#7 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:03 AM

You can't throw away the good, if you are going to keep the not so good.

1) Miami is a AA team, so yes you can.

2) It’s 5 games...1 of those games was an obvious outlier against a historically awful team. In a SSS, 1 game can greatly skew your stats, especially if we are talking about stuff like throwing down field, which was clearly huge in week 1 and not as good since.

Knight85 wants to talk about an agenda...I believe he is the one with the agenda. He is blind to these things because he wants to be right about Lamar. The FACTs are that the Miami game skews all the stats for the entire team, not just Lamar.

Take that game out..do you think this has been a good offense since then? What about the defense?

Do you think Brown has been as much of a factor in the other 4 games?

Everything is effected by 1 monster game when you have only played 5 games. It’s like being a reliever in baseball.

You could have 30 consecutive scoreless appearances but then give up 8 runs in your next 2 outings and all of a sudden your numbers don’t look that great.

In this particular article, Rivers is comparing last year and this year. So yes, saying that it would be interesting to know what the stats look like minus that game isn’t wrong. My guess is, like his overall numbers, he would still be showing improvement from last year, which is great to see.

But again, he has been bad for 10 of the last 12 quarters plus OT. He was awful against Pitt (with his arm).

So go ahead..throw out Miami and throw out Pitt (the best and worst)...what do you have? Pretty mediocre performances against 2 bad defenses and another defense that was missing its secondary.
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#8 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:51 AM

Well, when Lamar has a bad game against Seattle, or NE, or some other team with a very good defense, we now know can throw that game out too.


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#9 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:02 AM

Well, when Lamar has a bad game against Seattle, or NE, or some other team with a very good defense, we now know can throw that game out too.


Well he had an awful game already...how many are we throwing out?

FWIW, I have no issue throwing out the extremes (ie, the best and worst). I think that’s fair.
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#10 85Knight

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:09 AM

Take out the Miami game and he looks like all the other 2nd year QBs if not better. He's already completing passes that his critics were saying he couldn't. They thought the Ravens were going to be strictly a running team but they were wrong. Jackson will always be under a microscope because of that "running qb" label he got last year but when you step back and look at things he looks like another 2nd year qb with plenty of upside. I wonder what they'll say if he bounces back and has a monster game against Cincy on Sun. I guess we'll have to throw that game out too.

#11 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:15 AM

Saying he is completing passes that no one said he would is an ignorant statement.

There hasn’t been one person to say “he can’t complete this type of pass”

The talk has always been about CONSISTENCY! If you are going to discuss, at the very least you could not lie about people’s positions for your own agenda.
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#12 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:16 AM

Well he had an awful game already...how many are we throwing out?

FWIW, I have no issue throwing out the extremes (ie, the best and worst). I think that’s fair.

If we're going to micromanage the evaluation of Lamar, let's not forget that 2 of the INTs last week were on tipped passes that should have been caught or ruled incompletions.

 

I didn't see the last INT against Cleveland either, but it came in garbage time so maybe we can write that one off too.

 

Either way, taking out the Miami game or leaving it in doesn't change a thing. He's been up and down so far this year. He's still a rookie in terms of total games started.

 

I think he's probably on the lower side of this team's concerns.


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#13 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:20 AM

Saying he is completing passes that no one said he would is an ignorant statement.

There hasn’t been one person to say “he can’t complete this type of pass”

The talk has always been about CONSISTENCY! If you are going to discuss, at the very least you could not lie about people’s positions for your own agenda.

I took that as his completion percentage.

 

People pointed to his college numbers and said they couldn't improve in the NFL. He's completing 65% of passes this year, 61% for his career.


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#14 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 01:10 PM

If we're going to micromanage the evaluation of Lamar, let's not forget that 2 of the INTs last week were on tipped passes that should have been caught or ruled incompletions.

 

I didn't see the last INT against Cleveland either, but it came in garbage time so maybe we can write that one off too.

 

Either way, taking out the Miami game or leaving it in doesn't change a thing. He's been up and down so far this year. He's still a rookie in terms of total games started.

 

I think he's probably on the lower side of this team's concerns.

Absolutely...but he has also thrown passes that could or should have been picked off too.

 

Those things tend to even out over a larger sample size.

 

And this isn't about some calculated attempt to hurt his stats.  Miami is that bad.  I truly believe every single persons and teams stats should be thrown out, in terms of judging how good they are, when they play Miami this year.

 

I saw something interesting on the Colin Cowherd Show the other day.  He had stats up for Baker...16 games played against everyone and 2 against Cinci (last year).  Cinci's defense was awful last year.  His number were something like a 70+% completion%, 7 TDs, 0 INTs...2-0 record.  Everyone else, he is 6-10, 24 TDs, 22INTs, completion percentage in the low to mid 60s.

 

Basically, he is a league average QB that turns it over a lot against everyone except that terrible Bengals defense of 2018.

 

That doesn't mean you throw out those stats but it does mean that when there is an outlier and you are trying to assess a players total game, that you need to look into things like that because it can skew the numbers.


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#15 ravens82

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:01 PM

Based on the "roundtable" discussion not too long ago, these were the over/under numbers to predict for Jackson.  Based on the 5 games in the books:

 

61% completion percentage: Currently 65.4%

3400 passing yards: 1271 yards in 5 games; 4067 yard pace over 16 games

800 rushing yards308 yards in 5 games; 985 yard pace over 16 games

24 passing TDs: 11 TD passes in 5 games; 35 TD over 16 games

32 total TDs12 total TD in 5 games; 38 TD over 16 games

18 turnovers: 6 TO (5 INT, 1 Fumble lost) in 5 games; 19 TO over 16 games

60.0 QBR: Currently 65.2

 

Other than turnovers, looks pretty good to me.  Jackson has clearly improved from last year.  Let's see if he can sustain and build on this as the Ravens get to the tougher part of their schedule.


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#16 Mike B

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:38 PM

Based on the "roundtable" discussion not too long ago, these were the over/under numbers to predict for Jackson.  Based on the 5 games in the books:

 

61% completion percentage: Currently 65.4%

3400 passing yards: 1271 yards in 5 games; 4067 yard pace over 16 games

800 rushing yards308 yards in 5 games; 985 yard pace over 16 games

24 passing TDs: 11 TD passes in 5 games; 35 TD over 16 games

32 total TDs12 total TD in 5 games; 38 TD over 16 games

18 turnovers: 6 TO (5 INT, 1 Fumble lost) in 5 games; 19 TO over 16 games

60.0 QBR: Currently 65.2

 

Other than turnovers, looks pretty good to me.  Jackson has clearly improved from last year.  Let's see if he can sustain and build on this as the Ravens get to the tougher part of their schedule.

I still worry about Lamar some, but as your numbers show, IMO, he is ahead of what we thought was reasonable progress hopes.

 

Even last week, where I thought he was not very good, he found a way to make enough plays in the end to win.


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#17 ravens82

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:46 PM

I still worry about Lamar some, but as your numbers show, IMO, he is ahead of what we thought was reasonable progress hopes.

 

Even last week, where I thought he was not very good, he found a way to make enough plays in the end to win.

 

It's hard to believe, but the Ravens have the #3 offense in the league (by yards).  And they are #1 in points per game, even ahead of the mighty Pats who have played 3 winless teams (including Miami).



#18 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 04:27 PM

It's hard to believe, but the Ravens have the #3 offense in the league (by yards). And they are #1 in points per game, even ahead of the mighty Pats who have played 3 winless teams (including Miami).


Some of that is deceiving too because if the garbage time points against KC and Cle.

I only mention that because I don’t look at that offense and say that I feel confident they can score a bunch of points against a good defense, despite them being a top 3 scoring offense.
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#19 ravens82

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 04:37 PM

Some of that is deceiving too because if the garbage time points against KC and Cle.

I only mention that because I don’t look at that offense and say that I feel confident they can score a bunch of points against a good defense, despite them being a top 3 scoring offense.

 

I don't expect they'll finish in the Top 5 in offense this year, but I believe they could be Top 10.  But nothing they do this week is likely to make you "feel confident" about the offense or Lamar.  Unless they can put up numbers against the Seahawks or Patriots, you won't be convinced, I get it.  But we've come a long way from "Lamar is not likely to improve".


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#20 85Knight

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:40 AM

The numbers still count for Tom Brady, Dak Prescott and Philip Rivers against Miami. It just so happens that Lamar Jackson's numbers were better than theirs. So what's the logic in throwing his out?




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