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EDIT: Villar on Waivers


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#21 dude

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 05:16 PM

IMO, non tendering Villar is a big FU to the section of the fan base, who think it is time to begin to cycle up.

 

When this process starts, you have some people out there saying they are OK sucking for 5-7 years.  Jim Bowden says that every time a team moves to rebuild.  He said it last week about the Pirates.  He said it previously about the Orioles 

 

The Orioles have played 1 season and it's not clear we've added a single meaningful player, as a part of the rebuilding process, to a future competitive team.

 

A lot of people are still excited about the process that doesn't include winning, including the Orioles entire FO.



#22 JohnnyK27

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 07:52 PM

Not a chance!

Trade him for value or give him a 2-3 extension at 6.5 per.

Nontendering him is lunacy

#23 Mike B

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 08:06 PM

When this process starts, you have some people out there saying they are OK sucking for 5-7 years.  Jim Bowden says that every time a team moves to rebuild.  He said it last week about the Pirates.  He said it previously about the Orioles 

 

The Orioles have played 1 season and it's not clear we've added a single meaningful player, as a part of the rebuilding process, to a future competitive team.

 

A lot of people are still excited about the process that doesn't include winning, including the Orioles entire FO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I am probably close to your view,  I can not get behind a plan that thinks it is okay to lose 110 games for 2-3 or 4 years.  While at the same time letting the few good players they have go for pennies on a dollar value.


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#24 JohnnyK27

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 08:02 AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I am probably close to your view,  I can not get behind a plan that thinks it is okay to lose 110 games for 2-3 or 4 years.  While at the same time letting the few good players they have go for pennies on a dollar value.

 

 

I agree! I am fine if they trade Mancini, Villar and Bundy for a good return. Giving them away for nothing to make the team lose more is idiotic.

 

Villar had a 4 WAR season since 2016 he's a 2-4 WAR player with the exception of the one season. DFA scenarios (which is what nontendering to save money would accomplish is foolish)

 

I think you further alienate the casual fan base further lowering attendance.

 

If you can't get fair value then give him a reasonable 2 year extension (3 years $6.5 per for 2020-2022). He would likely embrace the stability over winning more for a single season in arbitration.



#25 Mackus

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 09:00 AM

Why would Villar sign an extension for $6.5M per year? He's gonna make $8M+ this year in arbitration and FA rates are usually higher than Arb3.

I'd trade Villar for the highest offer this off-season. No reserve.

Mancini has a reserve and it's pretty high.

#26 Mackus

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 09:00 AM

Why would Villar sign an extension for $6.5M per year? He's gonna make $8M+ this year in arbitration and FA rates are usually higher than Arb3.

I'd trade Villar for the highest offer this off-season. No reserve.

Mancini has a reserve and it's pretty high.

#27 dude

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 09:39 AM

Why would Villar sign an extension for $6.5M per year? He's gonna make $8M+ this year in arbitration and FA rates are usually higher than Arb3.

 

...the answer is because the 2B demand is terrible for him.  The reason it's more difficult to trade him is there are pretty few teams with need and there's lots of supply.  Supply-demand is working against him.

 

If he could make himself affordable to a team as a multi-year option then he could probably get some commitment.  Building some 'team value' in a contract could get him a contract.

 

For example, if you got in the middle of a LAD-CLE trade for Lindor, Villar could fill their 2B hole and stabilize things for them.

 

If you did 4/30 and got him for 7M per with a 2M buyout of team options at 9M, that's probably something he jumps on.  That could be with the Orioles or as part of a trade with another team. 



#28 JohnnyK27

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 10:37 AM

...the answer is because the 2B demand is terrible for him. The reason it's more difficult to trade him is there are pretty few teams with need and there's lots of supply. Supply-demand is working against him.

If he could make himself affordable to a team as a multi-year option then he could probably get some commitment. Building some 'team value' in a contract could get him a contract.

For example, if you got in the middle of a LAD-CLE trade for Lindor, Villar could fill their 2B hole and stabilize things for them.

If you did 4/30 and got him for 7M per with a 2M buyout of team options at 9M, that's probably something he jumps on. That could be with the Orioles or as part of a trade with another team.


Agreed ... plus he’s bounced around 3 teams in 6 years.

I said 6.5 and you mentioned 7. Either is fine and I think he would jump at it.



#29 dude

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 01:26 PM

Agreed ... plus he’s bounced around 3 teams in 6 years.

I said 6.5 and you mentioned 7. Either is fine and I think he would jump at it.

 

Yeah...contract = opportunity.  That's the issue with a lot of the market for the players.  You have a lot of upward pressure from youth in most systems and if you're a mid-tier guy and make yourself unattractive financially, nobody is really knocking down your door. 

 

That's the market challenges that everyone has lamented the last couple of years.  It's specifically why a lot of the fangraphs stuff is wrong.  They lack the correct market valuation in the process.  But it's written in a chart, so it must be correct.

 

Worst thing for Villar is to get released and then get pinched on a deal where he's more of a utility guy where he gets that label, then it's hard to get something more significant as a regular.  He should be begging the Orioles to give him a 48 hour window in a deal to get locked up and create value beyond just 2020 for a team adding him....that value is then part of what a team could consider giving up. 



#30 JohnnyK27

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 02:12 PM

Yeah...contract = opportunity.  That's the issue with a lot of the market for the players.  You have a lot of upward pressure from youth in most systems and if you're a mid-tier guy and make yourself unattractive financially, nobody is really knocking down your door. 

 

That's the market challenges that everyone has lamented the last couple of years.  It's specifically why a lot of the fangraphs stuff is wrong.  They lack the correct market valuation in the process.  But it's written in a chart, so it must be correct.

 

Worst thing for Villar is to get released and then get pinched on a deal where he's more of a utility guy where he gets that label, then it's hard to get something more significant as a regular.  He should be begging the Orioles to give him a 48 hour window in a deal to get locked up and create value beyond just 2020 for a team adding him....that value is then part of what a team could consider giving up. 

 

 

Or just get a deal done with him and then trade him



#31 bmore_ken

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 03:38 PM

Or just get a deal done with him and then trade him

That's pretty much what his last sentence says.



#32 JohnnyK27

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 04:15 PM

That's pretty much what his last sentence says.

 

 

Yeah ...letting him negotiate a deal elsewhere or sign here and then keep/trade. Pretty similar



#33 dude

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:34 PM

Roch reporting he's on out-right waivers and will be non-tendered Monday.

 

 

Update II: Villar is on outright waivers. If he clears, the Orioles are expected to non-tender him on Monday and he becomes a free agent.

 

yikes.

 

It's laughable they keep pushing this budget narrative.


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#34 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:55 PM

Impossibly cheap move. No justification for this and the lack of any commitment to spend even a paltry amount on this year's team that it represents. Besides greed. That's the very obvious explanation.

This is an Angelos move, btw. Elias is just along for the ride with a mandate not to spend their profits unless the team is gonna be good. I support the rebuild and some down years, but not the Angleos family making tens of millions in profit while it goes on at the price of a complete lack of professional quality team.

#35 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:57 PM

I guess unless they think they can resign him for less after he finds he has no market. Then it'd be justifiable. Or signing someone similar.

But I'm quite confident that this nontender means it'll be a total price slashing with no effort made to avoid being an embarrassing team again in 2020.

#36 JohnnyK27

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:00 PM

Roch reporting he's on out-right waivers and will be non-tendered Monday.

 

 

 

yikes.

 

It's laughable they keep pushing this budget narrative.

 

The poor ownership of the team now moves to the sons! I will never spend another nickel on going to an Orioles game until the team is sold.

 

Honestly for those Elias lovers ...Tell me what he's done that any bumbling idiot couldnt have done since he's gotten here

 

 

1) Got 2 nonprospects that will never make it for Cashner

 

2) Drafted Rutschman with the 1st pick....Anyone of us couldve done that with the #1 pick

 

3) Fumbled and did nothing at the trade deadline

 

4) Got nothing for your best player (3-4 WAR)

 

5) What about the international money slots (squandered)

 

Same old Orioles ..... Same old Angelos family!



#37 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:04 PM

I'm an Elias fan, believe in the overall plan, it's indefensible. 


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#38 Mackus

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:07 PM

Elias isn't a part of this decision.

#1 is asinine. Maybe they don't make it. Doesn't make acquiring them a bad move. And Cashner had next to no value so it's just if you want two young guys who aren't on radars yet or an back end top 30 guy with a small chance of being a minor contributor. Low odds of getting anything helpful for such a mediocre rental regardless of what you get back.

#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:11 PM

Idiotic move


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#40 BSLRobShields

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:17 PM

Its greed...its not cheap or anything like that.  Its flat out greed by a family who doesn't deserve the privilege of owning a baseball team.


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