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Offensive woes


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#1 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:07 AM

There are a lot of issues offensively right now.  

 

First of all, they need to start to get more out of the RBs.

 

First of all, they aren't using them in the passing game much at all.  The 3 RBs have a total of 16 catches and when you consider Lamar has a worst YPA than Flacco was showing us, that is pretty surprising.  No screens or anything like that at all.

 

Ingram has been up and down but overall, he has been pretty decent.  Edwards and Hill have a total of 51 carries.  Hill is barely part of the game plan yet he is lightning fast.  Maybe he sucks at picking up the blitz or isnt grasping the offense or something like that but they need to get him in the game and use that speed more often.  

 

The RBs have a total of 125 carries for 584 yards.  The YPC is pretty good at 4.6 but the best rush defense they have faced, Cle, is 18th in the league in rush defense in terms of yards per game.   Pitt is 22nd (and they struggled yesterday), and the other 3 teams are 3 of the 5 worst rush defenses in the league.

 

They just aren't getting enough out of this unit as of now and some of that is just Roman not running it enough.  At least they had 40 carries to 28 passes yesterday but again, how many carries from Lamar were actually passes?  He probably was called for more like 33ish passes, instead of the 28 he threw.

 

Besides that, none of the WR are stepping up.  Brown is getting manhandled and isn't really getting that free.  Boykin is a non factor.  He threw some to Snead yesterday, which was good but still, they need more.

 

We have discussed the Lamar issues...some of that is on him, some of it is WR not winning their matchups and some of it is them not scheming well.  This was talked about in the game thread but they are continually having multiple receivers in the same area all the time.  That can't be the intent and if it is, that's horrible scheming.

 

I also think they need to look at Powers to replace Bozeman.  


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#2 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:19 AM

https://twitter.com/...0467591168?s=20

 

Snap counts from yesterday.

 

20 snaps for Boykin and 5 for Hill. Thats awful. Again, maybe they aren't picking up the offense but you don't have that much talent where you can afford to leave them off the field.

 

Forget that Chris Moore is even on the team.

 

Seth Roberts getting 50+ snaps is incredible to me.


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#3 ravens82

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:29 AM

Teams are playing two safeties to prevent the deep ball, and clogging up the middle, leaving one on one match ups on the outside. Lamar needs to improve his comfort level and accuracy passing to the outside.  His one egregious INT was on an outside throw where he just didn't see the defender.

 

The WRs aren't getting much separation on the outside either, unless Hollywood lines up there.  They really need to use Boykin more, especially in the red zone.  I don't understand why Roberts is getting more snaps.



#4 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:59 AM

My take on the offensive woes are the same as I had with the defense, there is no base package. There is no natural rhythm or area of emphasis. 

 

I wish we'd spread things out a little bit more. Yes, the power run game packages are great, but when you squeeze two TEs and 2 WR inside the hashes, literally there are no edges to run. I'd much rather spread them out, show some lateral movement that creates a few more seams and then use isolation to win. It makes it easier for defenses to conceal who is blitzing (we had this problem with Watt, it wasn't so much that he was unaccounted for but they were run blitzing another S or LB and the help blocker had to take them, we were essentially outnumbered). 


The second, this offense just has no rhythm. There are no simple throws. No simple runs. Everything feels really difficult and hard fought. Jackson missed Boyle on an uncovered flat route, so maybe it's his vision is in the wrong place but we really need there to be some easier reads/throws early. Make the defense show you what they are doing and then Lamar rapidly identify and execute. 

 

I think in the second half they got gun shy because of all the INTs, Pitt knew it, stacked the box and that was pretty much that. Picks, rubs, screens, I don't know what you have to do but use some play design and some deception to make things a bit easier on yourself. 



#5 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 11:21 AM

Also, it's kind of hard to evaluate Jackson right now. Of his three INTs all were catchable balls. His accuracy could improve (the Brown end zone play would have been a TD if he led him) but he's getting in the ballpark. He was officially 19 of 28 last week, I'd say the two endzone incompletions and the 3 INTs could all be labeled as catchable, so we're talking about at least 24 of 28 passes being catchable on the week. I kind of remember one other drop but honestly I'm not sure who or when it happened. 


If the issue is decision making, ideally they can improve on some of that with scheme and in the locker room. But it might be nice to make it a little bit easier for him. The Steelers simplified reads for their QBs, how is it not possible to do that for our guys? 



#6 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 11:54 AM

https://twitter.com/...0467591168?s=20

Snap counts from yesterday.

20 snaps for Boykin and 5 for Hill. Thats awful. Again, maybe they aren't picking up the offense but you don't have that much talent where you can afford to leave them off the field.

Forget that Chris Moore is even on the team.

Seth Roberts getting 50+ snaps is incredible to me.

Chris Moore should be in the dog house after openly catching a ball out of bounds a week ago.

TBF, Roberts is a blocker and springs the RBs or Lamar at times and it just isn’t talked about. But I’ve seen it. Also Roberts beat his man on the deep ball yesterday to win the game and Lamar missed the throw.

However, I agree that your better receivers need to be out there more often. I saw a few times yesterday in empty sets they had all three TEs split out. Is that the best use of resources? A line having trouble blocking, putting your slowest and best blockers out wide? Lamar with limited time to throw, and 60% of his options are slow?
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#7 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:14 PM

My take on the offensive woes are the same as I had with the defense, there is no base package. There is no natural rhythm or area of emphasis. 

 

I wish we'd spread things out a little bit more. Yes, the power run game packages are great, but when you squeeze two TEs and 2 WR inside the hashes, literally there are no edges to run. I'd much rather spread them out, show some lateral movement that creates a few more seams and then use isolation to win. It makes it easier for defenses to conceal who is blitzing (we had this problem with Watt, it wasn't so much that he was unaccounted for but they were run blitzing another S or LB and the help blocker had to take them, we were essentially outnumbered). 


The second, this offense just has no rhythm. There are no simple throws. No simple runs. Everything feels really difficult and hard fought. Jackson missed Boyle on an uncovered flat route, so maybe it's his vision is in the wrong place but we really need there to be some easier reads/throws early. Make the defense show you what they are doing and then Lamar rapidly identify and execute. 

 

I think in the second half they got gun shy because of all the INTs, Pitt knew it, stacked the box and that was pretty much that. Picks, rubs, screens, I don't know what you have to do but use some play design and some deception to make things a bit easier on yourself. 

This is well said.  But I feel like this has been the norm for the last several years.  Arent we supposed to have an NFL altering offense?


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#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:15 PM

Chris Moore should be in the dog house after openly catching a ball out of bounds a week ago.

TBF, Roberts is a blocker and springs the RBs or Lamar at times and it just isn’t talked about. But I’ve seen it. Also Roberts beat his man on the deep ball yesterday to win the game and Lamar missed the throw.

However, I agree that your better receivers need to be out there more often. I saw a few times yesterday in empty sets they had all three TEs split out. Is that the best use of resources? A line having trouble blocking, putting your slowest and best blockers out wide? Lamar with limited time to throw, and 60% of his options are slow?

Good point.

 

I also think this team still needs a legit #1 WR.


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#9 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:21 PM

This is well said.  But I feel like this has been the norm for the last several years.  Arent we supposed to have an NFL altering offense?

 

We can but they need to get over this. Use it sparingly and in the right situations...if you're trying to do it every play it loses it's luster.

 

I just rewatched the highlights from the NFL stream of the game, and when we go wide, whether it's under center or in shotgun (and it doesn't have to be 5-wide) that's when we have the most success.

 

To me, you're "altering" if you bunch of on first down, run it, no huddle and go 5-wide out of a power formation right after that. The malleability of this offense to do both is what makes it most effective. Make the defense put personnel out there to defend yours and then do something totally different. 

 

A lot of the work in the non bunch/tight formation success that we saw was deep routes taking up the safeties and someone on a crosser. Lamar gets an easy read then on the seam deep or underneath. If protection can hold up for that read, you get an easy throw...

 

This team seems to be outhinking itself on offense. They played much more within themselves on defense this week. Now do the same on offense. If you're going to stay bunched and tight, run more RPO and let Jackson be the threat to the edge. 



#10 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:31 PM

I think a big issue here is that Roman doesn't know how to draw up and scheme passing offenses.  It isn't his strength.  We know he can scheme running games but I want to see him show he can scheme passing games.

 

Of course, there is a lot of other issues here besides him.  He has a limited passing QB, young WR and vet WR that aren't that great.

 

Again, I don't see why they don't use screens more.  I dont get why they don't get Brown more into open space and let him work.  Like Jordan said, things just seem harder than they should.  I feel like if Belicheck had Brown (with or without Brady), he would be a beast.  


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#11 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:39 PM

I would bring Jay Gruden onto the staff right now.


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#12 ravens82

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

.Again, I don't see why they don't use screens more.  I dont get why they don't get Brown more into open space and let him work.  Like Jordan said, things just seem harder than they should.  I feel like if Belicheck had Brown (with or without Brady), he would be a beast.  

 

Agree with this, gotta use our speed advantage.  The checkdown/bailout passes thrown to Ingram could be much more effective as designed screen plays to Hill and/or Hollywood with blockers in front.



#13 jamesdean

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 01:03 PM

Agree with this, gotta use our speed advantage.  The checkdown/bailout passes thrown to Ingram could be much more effective as designed screen plays to Hill and/or Hollywood with blockers in front.

The Ravens will never be confused with a creative, offensive mind set.  It's always been like that, regardless of the OC, which makes me wonder if Harbaugh has more input than we realize.  Or maybe, they don't have much confidence in the OL blocking effectively with those kind of plays.  I doubt we'll ever know one way or another because the game plan will probably be more of the same going forward.  But I would like to see Hill out there as a runner more often.  I hope he doesn't evolve into a glorified kick returner. 



#14 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 01:05 PM

I would bring Jay Gruden onto the staff right now.

 

I thought the same thing this morning, let him have some influence. Has he ever worked with Roman?

 

Honestly, Roman was at his prime when he was working with the other Harbaugh, so to me that says he's willing to take advice from another offensive mind. And he played second fiddle to Marty last year. 



#15 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 01:17 PM

I thought the same thing this morning, let him have some influence. Has he ever worked with Roman?

 

Honestly, Roman was at his prime when he was working with the other Harbaugh, so to me that says he's willing to take advice from another offensive mind. And he played second fiddle to Marty last year. 

It doesn't look like it.

 

But Gruden is a really good offensive mind.  He can scheme and design very well.  


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#16 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 05:16 PM

However, I agree that your better receivers need to be out there more often. I saw a few times yesterday in empty sets they had all three TEs split out. Is that the best use of resources? A line having trouble blocking, putting your slowest and best blockers out wide? Lamar with limited time to throw, and 60% of his options are slow?

 

I don't hate that scheme as much as you might. If you've gone no huddle and you catch them in a jumbo package. But Boyle should be running flats, crossers, and hook routes. The idea that he's running seam and corner routes doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Teams are much more likely to just let him take something underneath and then he's at his strength of running through someone and it's an easier catch. Run Andrews and Hurst on the deep stuff if you need to, IMO. 



#17 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:34 PM

Breida just exploded for an 80+ yard TD.

He has great speed.

Hill should be able to be Breida at least (again unless he can’t pick up the blitz, can’t pick up the offense, etc...)
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#18 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:43 PM

Breida just exploded for an 80+ yard TD.

He has great speed.

Hill should be able to be Breida at least (again unless he can’t pick up the blitz, can’t pick up the offense, etc...)

 

I wasn't that impressed with Hill's burst. He wasn't really running by guys on that kick return and he had a full head of steam it seemed...

 

I'd say Breida's burst on that play looked better, IMO. 

 

Edit: But agree if he's running that fast in practice, you gotta find ways to get him the ball ins pace to burst. 

 

Double edit: Nice to see the niners laying it Cleveland. That's a plus for Baltimore. 



#19 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 10:13 PM

Watch the Niners tonight....and the Colts last night.

They played 2 teams that the Ravens lost to and they both stayed with the run and continued to do it every week.

Harbaugh is allowing what happened to Flacco to happen to Lamar...throw it too much and not run it enough.

They want to force that idea that Lamar can throw so much that they are willing to hurt the season over it.
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#20 jamesdean

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 05:25 AM

Watch the Niners tonight....and the Colts last night.

They played 2 teams that the Ravens lost to and they both stayed with the run and continued to do it every week.

Harbaugh is allowing what happened to Flacco to happen to Lamar...throw it too much and not run it enough.

They want to force that idea that Lamar can throw so much that they are willing to hurt the season over it.

Amen, brother.  And I just watched the highlights of the Cleveland game last night and it's amazing what a pass rush, namely Nick Bosa can do to a quarterback.  He was a one man wrecking crew and all I kept thinking was, "man, it would be great to have someone like that."  Mayfield leaves Baltimore looking All-World and exits SF looking like Ryan Leaf. 






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