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Name, Image, Likeness


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#1 Chris B

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 03:43 PM

Colleges reap billions from student athletes but block them from earning a single dollar. That’s a bankrupt model. I just signed the Fair Play to Pay Act with @KingJames-- making CA the first state to allow student athletes to profit off their name, image, and likeness.

 

Sports Illustrated: Pac-12 Claims New California Law Will Have Very Significant Negative Consequences

https://www.si.com/c...m_medium=social

 

Sports Illustrated: What's Next After California Signs Game Changer Fair Pay to Play Act Into Law?

https://www.si.com/c...m_medium=social


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#2 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 04:17 PM

The idea that this isn't a thing everywhere is horrible.


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#3 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:04 PM

If you think the divide between the have programs and the have not programs is big now just wait. Its going to look a lot like the Grand Canyon.



#4 Ricker Says

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:09 PM

So why wouldn't athletes want to play at a California school now?
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#5 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:14 PM

So why wouldn't athletes want to play at a California school now?


It’s going to be huge for those schools.

But this will start happening everywhere.
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#6 Ricker Says

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:20 PM

Which overall is a good thing. But until that happens countrywide, I hate the competitive advantage those early states will have. But I guess they will deserve that for doing the right thing.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#7 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 05:59 PM

You do wonder how kids will consider this.

Let’s say a kid is choosing between UCLA and Bama and that kid is looked as a potential pro prospect.

Does he go somewhere where he can make money off of his name or go where he will be better coached, where he will be on national TV all the time and play the best competition in the country?
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#8 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 06:40 PM

You do wonder how kids will consider this.

Let’s say a kid is choosing between UCLA and Bama and that kid is looked as a potential pro prospect.

Does he go somewhere where he can make money off of his name or go where he will be better coached, where he will be on national TV all the time and play the best competition in the country?

 

My gut says this will be like basketball was after the NBA forced the one-and-done on kids out of HS. A lot of people thought the best prospects would go overseas or the D/G-League where they can make a little money until they're eligible, rather than a year of college. But the reality is they still mostly choose college for the reasons you mention.

 

I think most football players will do the same, picking the schools based on their relationships with the coaches and where they think will best prepare them....even though they will have to wait three years instead of just one. Now if a kid looks at schools like USC and Alabama as near equals, then this could definitely tip the scales to USC.



#9 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 30 September 2019 - 09:26 PM

Pac-12 football and basketball is garbage anyway. They need this to get on the other P5 conferences level.

 

Also, should be legalized everywhere.


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#10 Bmore Irish

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:18 AM

The second SI article in the original post was really good at covering all the bases, I thought. There's pretty much 0% chance that nothing changes between now and 2023 when this law would take effect.

 

My hope is that ultimately this forces the NCAA to drop the "amateurism" façade, or maybe better yet, go away completely. That seems like a tall order though. It's gonna be a fierce legal battle over the next few years for sure.


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#11 Mackus

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:23 AM

Is anybody against this?

 

I only hear people who have a stake in making money off of these kids advocate that they shouldn't get paid.  It's so inherently un-American to not let people make money when they have something of value to the consumer.

 

Definitely some issues of fairness that will need to be hammered out.  There are probably less than a thousand high schoolers in the country (across all sports) that have an asset that is worth money on the open market and would get paid if it were fully legal.  Need to figure a way to balance things competitively between the schools who can afford huge payments and those that cannot at a conference or NCAA division level. 

 

But in general this is a concept that is way overdue and it's time to start figuring out how the NCAA is going to make it work rather than fight the inevitable.


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#12 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 09:16 AM

Is anybody against this?

I only hear people who have a stake in making money off of these kids advocate that they shouldn't get paid. It's so inherently un-American to not let people make money when they have something of value to the consumer.

Definitely some issues of fairness that will need to be hammered out. There are probably less than a thousand high schoolers in the country (across all sports) that have an asset that is worth money on the open market and would get paid if it were fully legal. Need to figure a way to balance things competitively between the schools who can afford huge payments and those that cannot at a conference or NCAA division level.

But in general this is a concept that is way overdue and it's time to start figuring out how the NCAA is going to make it work rather than fight the inevitable.


Well put. Wonder if Revenue sharing among the schools would narrow the gap. In know it’s not til 2023, but for sake of argument, Tagoviola jerseys would sell a lot more than Josh Jackson jerseys. More money in Tua’s pocket, but Maryland and Bama would get the same piece of the entire 130 piece pie. That way the small group of elite schools don’t get more elite off the kids. All the schools can get more money, but the better kids make more.
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#13 Mackus

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 09:32 AM

Every time I think about this I think about how the sports that don't have full rides for everyone on the team divys those scholarships up, and I think that could be a good approach for what teams could do with money to pay players.

 

NCAA baseball teams have 11.7 scholarships that can be divied among 27 players.  A coach can offer a player a full ride a partial scholarship (at least 1/4) or no scholarship.  So the best players all get offered full rides, but secondary players then have to decide if they want to take a 1/4 scholly from a top school or a full ride from a different school.

 

I think money could be done similarly and even be the equalizer to some of the above competitive balance things.  All D1 football teams should get some equal share of the NCAA money (similar to how the salary cap works in pro sports, a percentage of revenue goes to players) to be able to give to players.  All teams in each conference could get a portion of that conference's money.  And then each team also has their own personal revenue.  Set maximum dollar figures you can offer a player, and then let it just be a (mostly) free market.  

 

Alabama can offer the max amount to a few guys, but would be limited at some point and then you'll have guys having to decide to take whatever Alabama has left to offer them versus the max amount from some other schools.



#14 Bmore Irish

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:12 AM

I always thought this had a lot more to do with money players could potentially receive from outside the university.


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#15 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:12 AM

Ok so lets take the next natural step. How do you handle Title IX?  Are you going to "pay" track (pick your sport) athletes out of this pool of money? This gets really complex now. Title IX doesn't address the topic of inequality of revenues. So are you going to have to pay all these athletes? Do you have a pay scale?

 

Well no because the new law is that they aren't paid by the school but its only outside business interests. So superstar QB gets an endorsement deal from the local Chevy dealer. How much does he get? How happy is his Oline now? They aren't going to get anywhere near the kind of endorsements that the skill players get. 

 

And on and on. Going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.

 

I suspect that when its all said and done the NCAA will have to capitulate. But for awhile they are going to threaten to drop any schools that allow these endorsements.



#16 Chris B

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:32 AM

What this also allows is for for non revenue sports to offer to do camps or lessons (swimming lessons, pitching instruction, etc.) and use their likeness/skills for payment
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#17 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 10:41 AM

Ok so lets take the next natural step. How do you handle Title IX?  Are you going to "pay" track (pick your sport) athletes out of this pool of money? This gets really complex now. Title IX doesn't address the topic of inequality of revenues. So are you going to have to pay all these athletes? Do you have a pay scale?

 

Well no because the new law is that they aren't paid by the school but its only outside business interests. So superstar QB gets an endorsement deal from the local Chevy dealer. How much does he get? How happy is his Oline now? They aren't going to get anywhere near the kind of endorsements that the skill players get. 

 

And on and on. Going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.

 

I suspect that when its all said and done the NCAA will have to capitulate. But for awhile they are going to threaten to drop any schools that allow these endorsements.

This is kinda just the way of the world, isn't it? A reason why superstar RB/QB buys their lineman Rolex watches and thousand dollar steak dinners. Their success is based in part on those guys. Maybe that will be passed down to the college ranks. Star QB gets $10M from Nike. Gives $250k to each O-lineman. 


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#18 JeremyStrain

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:00 AM

I support it, mostly because if the NCAA is going to keep pocketing the billions they make on it, they should at the very LEAST be offering every player on these Div 1 teams full rides with the money.

 

It was touched on earlier, that's not how it works though. There are a certain number split between the team. More for football obv because they make more off it, but some of those players are earning NCAA money, and then having to pay part of their own way anyway.

 

Let's be real, a LARGE percentage of college players wouldn't take any classes at all if they didn't have to. They aren't there for the degree...people sell that as the benefit, but that's realistically not what they are going to do.

 

I think let them get their money, BUT when they do, they don't get a scholarship anymore, because they can clearly afford to pay for school. That lets more full rides go to players like OL or those non superstar players that maybe are on the team, but aren't going to go pro and will get the most out of their degree.

 

You won't see it as much in baseball, but that's a good show about the scholarships. Your stud ACE pitcher will get a full ride. Your .600 hitting good defensive short stop will get one. But the majority of players get partials, and the bottom of the roster none at all. Not that college baseball players are going to get giant endorsement deals but it's hard enough being a student athlete these days. Give them a fighting chance and don't just focus on the superstar basketball and football players who will make a ton of money. Let companies take the risk of giving them big sponsorship deals and them flaming out and that money goes to waste.


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#19 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 11:16 AM

While we're on the subject... can anyone confirm if schools actually "pay" for an athletes "full ride". Saw somewhere that the UMD out of state tuition is valued at $51K, maybe it was $53K, can't remember exactly. Not the point.

 

I can't think that UMD football/athletics writes a check to the bursars office for $51K for each kid they give a full ride to. I'm willing to bet that the kid gets to go to class for free which is way different that athletics cutting checks like that. Balance sheets include the scholarships they give away. But that allows for a loophole if they just give the student a zero balance on their account and let them go to class for free. 


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#20 Bmore Irish

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 12:11 PM

Would this new law be impacted by Title IX at all? These are primarily opportunities that exist outside of the educational institutions. It's not exactly like having to provide proportional scholarship opportunities. I don't think it's a perfect comparison, but if art students are making money off of commissioned work outside of their university classes/activities, is that something that's covered by Title IX? I genuinely don't know, but I'd be surprised if it was. 


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