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Monuments, Statues, More


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#201 Cisc-O's

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:03 PM

I'm not saying this angrily or anything, but I just want to note that I made this exact comment a ways back. Black Issues, for lack of a better term, don't get traction until white people start thinking that it's a problem. 


Well that is not saying anything of substance though. As black people only make up 12% of America. Latino's make up 16%. So of course we need people to champion any cause we raise.
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#202 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:08 PM

Well that is not saying anything of substance though. As black people only make up 12% of America. Latino's make up 16%. So of course we need people to champion any cause we raise.

 

That's a fact that's not obvious to everyone. You can tell in this very thread, that this blindsided some people. Like, "Hold up, why didn't anybody say anything before?"

 

They did.


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#203 Cisc-O's

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:19 PM

That's a fact that's not obvious to everyone. You can tell in this very thread, that this blindsided some people. Like, "Hold up, why didn't anybody say anything before?"

They did.

I have always wondered why the different minority's did not work together more. My father for instance could not drink from the white water fountains. He was a dark skinned Puerto Rican. That is to much to go in on a sports talk board lol. I also think that is changing with the new label of P.O.C. That is popping up more often.
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#204 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:22 PM

In terms of environmental factors vs personal responsibility...

 

Both are very important in terms of how someone conducts themselves and what their values and beliefs are. 

 

As far as emphasizing the personal responsibility over the environment in terms of beliefs on matters of race, well I compare that to beliefs on matters of religion and matters of politics. How many people that were raised in a household where they were strongly influenced on religious and/or political views can honestly say they have been truly open minded on those issues? However many people say that they have, it's a fraction of it.

 

So yes, it's possible to completely change your views, but if we were using an advanced stat here, I'm guessing it would show that it's not very probable. 

 

However, if those people got a good education, perhaps moved away for college and/or a job, they chances of being truly open minded would improve. 

 

Going anecdotal, but I learned a lot from living in NC a while, as well as being in the industry that I'm in now. Some of my best friends are definitely against me on this issue (hell, I think I told you before that one of my friends is an occasional Civil War cosplayer). 

 

My views may still be...well, mine...but they've definitely been swayed ever-so-slightly in one way or another just because I share so many conversations with people that I don't voluntarily associate with. 

 

...long as it's cordial, of course. 



#205 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:28 PM

I have always wondered why the different minority's did not work together more. My for instance could not drink from the white water fountains. He was a dark skinned Puerto Rican. That is to much to go in on a sports talk board lol. I also think that is changing with the new label of P.O.C. That is popping up more often.

 

THAT is a much, much longer topic that...wow, yeah...lol



#206 bnickle

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:00 PM

In terms of environmental factors vs personal responsibility...

 

Both are very important in terms of how someone conducts themselves and what their values and beliefs are. 

 

As far as emphasizing the personal responsibility over the environment in terms of beliefs on matters of race, well I compare that to beliefs on matters of religion and matters of politics. How many people that were raised in a household where they were strongly influenced on religious and/or political views can honestly say they have been truly open minded on those issues? However many people say that they have, it's a fraction of it.

 

So yes, it's possible to completely change your views, but if we were using an advanced stat here, I'm guessing it would show that it's not very probable. 

 

However, if those people got a good education, perhaps moved away for college and/or a job, they chances of being truly open minded would improve. 

You're not giving people enough credit for thinking for themselves. Almost everyone I knew who grew up in a religious, right leaning or flat out republican home has questioned religion. How can you not.  They grew up with tvs in their home watching progressive tv channels and shows and see what is out there beyond their small town even if they haven't experienced it for themselves. Now, what they may say in front of their parents when they're 15 or 16 may be different than what they think in their head or talk about with their friends but they question things and think for themselves.  However, if you want to talk about those that are easy influenced and dont think for themselves  then I dont know why you think sending an 18 yr old to a  biased, liberal college is going to open their mind.



#207 mweb08

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:24 PM

Going off to college changes your environment and can open one to a wide array of perspectives and opinions (not just liberal) that they haven't had much exposure to in the real world. 

 

Anyway, yes, people question religion, but how many people have drastically changed their religion from what they grew up in? The vast majority end up in the same general ballpark as what they were raised in. They may not practice as much as religion is in decline, but they typically have roughly the same beliefs. However, there are very few people comparatively that grow up in a Christian family in this country and then become Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, Buddhists, etc. If people truly had an open mind and weren't affected by their environment so much, we'd have a drastically different composition of people's religious beliefs. 



#208 glenn__davis

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

I'm not saying this angrily or anything, but I just want to note that I made this exact comment a ways back. Black Issues, for lack of a better term, don't get traction until white people start thinking that it's a problem. 

 

I agree with this post for the most part.

 

That's a fact that's not obvious to everyone. You can tell in this very thread, that this blindsided some people. Like, "Hold up, why didn't anybody say anything before?"

 

They did.

 

In all seriousness, how many did?  I remember some vague talk about it before, but it never seemed to be a hot-button topic.  Possibly because white people didn't get involved, but I"m very skeptical that this was an important issue in the black community.  I was listening to the radio the day after the statues were removed and they were talking to folks in the area, and every person they talked to mentioned that they had no idea that the statues were there.  

 

And don't take that to mean that I think they should have stayed up.  If people in the community wanted them down I have no problem with that, and I have no problem if the issue was pushed to the forefront after the events of last week.  I'm just curious as to how much of an issue this actually was prior to last week, and would be interested in some insight on that.

 

(I think I told you before that one of my friends is an occasional Civil War cosplayer). 

 

Are you referring to reenactors?  Do you take issue with such events (not meant to be accusatory, again just looking for your opinion)?



#209 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

Whether for college or a job, I'm definitely an advocate for spending a few years away from your "home base."



#210 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

Are you referring to reenactors?  Do you take issue with such events (not meant to be accusatory, again just looking for your opinion)?

 

(I'll hit up your second part later. Not ignoring it.)

 

And no, I don't take issue if you follow the story, and don't twist it like, "Hey, let's do one where the South wins," which he doesn't. 


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#211 glenn__davis

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 02:07 PM

(I'll hit up your second part later. Not ignoring it.)

 

And no, I don't take issue if you follow the story, and don't twist it like, "Hey, let's do one where the South wins," which he doesn't. 

 

Thanks.  I mean, the South DID win some battles though :)  But obviously I get your point.

 

Looking forward to your response on my other questions whenever you have time.


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#212 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 02:38 PM

In all seriousness, how many did?  I remember some vague talk about it before, but it never seemed to be a hot-button topic.  Possibly because white people didn't get involved, but I"m very skeptical that this was an important issue in the black community.  I was listening to the radio the day after the statues were removed and they were talking to folks in the area, and every person they talked to mentioned that they had no idea that the statues were there.  

 

And don't take that to mean that I think they should have stayed up.  If people in the community wanted them down I have no problem with that, and I have no problem if the issue was pushed to the forefront after the events of last week.  I'm just curious as to how much of an issue this actually was prior to last week, and would be interested in some insight on that.

 

I can get into the long story if you’re interested, but this was definitely an issue my grandparents, along with other people in their neighborhood, took issue with when they still lived in the city. This comes up every few years, it gets a tiny bit of press (and maybe a facebook group, news article, or something like that), then it’s like a fart in the wind. I was aware that the statues were there (I’m just talking about Lee/Jackson), because I was told that they were there by family. Friends of mine knew as well…some did, some did not. But just like every other topic of discussion, it slowly dies over time when the people stop yelling. People give up, people move, people die.

 

To be fair, the “Why” that I got, prior to research, was, “It’s just a southern state, and that’s what they do.” And apparently I wasn’t the only one that got that talk. 

 

So, in short, most people that cared just...figured "it is what it is" by now. 


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#213 McNulty

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:02 PM

I think there's a lot of 'Is this the hill I want to die on' with minorities on the statue issue. It's wrong but there are a lot of more important injustices. Or maybe not - easy for me to say.

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#214 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:05 PM

I think there's a lot of 'Is this the hill I want to die on' with minorities on the statue issue. It's wrong but there are a lot of more important injustices. Or maybe not - easy for me to say.

 

 

That's another thing to note. I mean...in Baltimore, especially...is this really going to be seen as the most pressing issue, ever?

 

But #1, it's a piece of a bigger problem, and #2, it's such an easy problem to solve.



#215 The Epic

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:06 PM

And (I'm sorry to continually post)...wow, this started something. Cities are...making moves, man. 



#216 BSLRobShields

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:50 PM

I'd be curious to know what percentage of people in the inner cities, say under the age of 40, even know who these people are and what they did.

(Btw, ignorance to the subject doesn't mean you don't take them down, I am just genuinely wondering how many people know the significance)
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#217 glenn__davis

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 06:22 AM

I can get into the long story if you’re interested, but this was definitely an issue my grandparents, along with other people in their neighborhood, took issue with when they still lived in the city. This comes up every few years, it gets a tiny bit of press (and maybe a facebook group, news article, or something like that), then it’s like a fart in the wind. I was aware that the statues were there (I’m just talking about Lee/Jackson), because I was told that they were there by family. Friends of mine knew as well…some did, some did not. But just like every other topic of discussion, it slowly dies over time when the people stop yelling. People give up, people move, people die.

 

To be fair, the “Why” that I got, prior to research, was, “It’s just a southern state, and that’s what they do.” And apparently I wasn’t the only one that got that talk. 

 

So, in short, most people that cared just...figured "it is what it is" by now. 

 

OK, thanks.


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#218 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:31 PM

http://m.washingtont...ersity-virgini/
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