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MASN: Thoughts on Mountcastle and Diaz


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#21 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 04:15 PM

Yep, that's why I mentioned him. I may not have been clear. I was using Bryant in regard to a situation where the O's don't bring RM north for OD, the way the Cubs handled KB. At the time I posted that, I didn't realize RM is in the same situation. Thanks for clearing that up for me. 

 

I can see the point about his D. But I don't know if that's a strong enough argument for sending him down next spring, if his bat is ready. Even though 2020 is going to be another non-competitive year in Baltimore, it still seems like they need to suck it up and let go of that year, if he's ready.  

If they make his defense an issue to send him down, they have to keep him down more than a few weeks.  

 

But I don't see why saying they want him to play better defense should be looked at as a weak argument, especially if it is a lack of effort, as the scout said in the The Athletic article I linked to in the Norfolk section.  


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#22 russsnyder

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 04:46 PM

Well, the big key here is that his defense is shit and if he isn’t putting in the effort defensively, telling him to go to AAA to work on it is fine.

And btw, Bryant was called up later in April.

He can work on his defense over the winter as well. If the guy can hit ( and it appears that he can), they'll find a spot for him on the major league roster sooner or later.

Also, Mountcastle has been moved around the field like a chess piece the last year or so. He's obviously not a plus defender. I'll take the scout's assessment of Mountcastle's work ethic with a grain of salt. It would be more damning if it was a former coach who was making the statement.

#23 dude

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 06:04 PM

That's what the Cubs did to Kris Bryant, and it was all about holding him in the minors for X amount of days, to gain an extra year of control, even though he was obviously ML ready. If the O's do that to RM, that would be pretty lame. 

 

Bryant is a Boras client.  I'd have different rules for Boras clients.



#24 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 06:09 PM

The one thing you can always do is just offer him a contract immediately...then the service time means nothing.

But is Mountcastle a guy you want to lock into for 6-8 years?
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#25 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 06:37 PM

At the costs the extension would be (minimal) probably likely.

I think the service time games are bad for the game, but even thinking that... its hard to argue for the promotion when you can gain that extra year of control with him down a few weeks.

Still, I always come back to the ability to extend. You believe you are going to want that player in that would be additional year? Go buy out the arb years and get the first year or two of FA.



#26 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 07:42 PM

I wonder how much that service game costs down the road? Does a player like him, who has clearly demonstrated he is ready get rubbed the wrong way when they play this game? Not much they can do about it now but they sure can screw with the team down the road.



#27 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 07:55 PM

I wonder how much that service game costs down the road? Does a player like him, who has clearly demonstrated he is ready get rubbed the wrong way when they play this game? Not much they can do about it now but they sure can screw with the team down the road.


This gets brought up a lot but have we ever heard a player say this turned them off?
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#28 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 08:14 PM

This gets brought up a lot but have we ever heard a player say this turned them off?

Yeah hard to know if its a thing or not. Perhaps they don't actually say it as a not burning bridges thing?


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#29 Mike B

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 08:46 PM

This gets brought up a lot but have we ever heard a player say this turned them off?

Maybe because no young player, just up or on his way up is going to call out the organization


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#30 BSLRobShields

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:35 PM

Maybe because no young player, just up or on his way up is going to call out the organization


I’m not saying they need to.

I’m saying when it comes time to become a FA, have we ever heard someone say they won’t re-sign with their team because they messed with their service time?

We can all say players get upset and I’m sure it does...but how much does it really effect the relationship between player and team?
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#31 mdrunning

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 12:17 AM

I think it's largely a myth that players are thinking about the front office when they take the field. The front office, as Andy MacPhail once noted, ranks "about 63rd on the list." They play for themselves, their teammates, their families, etc. 



#32 russsnyder

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 07:44 AM

At the costs the extension would be (minimal) probably likely.

I think the service time games are bad for the game, but even thinking that... its hard to argue for the promotion when you can gain that extra year of control with him down a few weeks.

Still, I always come back to the ability to extend. You believe you are going to want that player in that would be additional year? Go buy out the arb years and get the first year or two of FA.


I think it will be interesting to see how the Orioles handle Mountcastle in a couple of days. I think he will get the promotion. While I prefer to handle his service time differently, I think he gets some at bats in September. If he comes up, I would play him at first and let Davis stay on the bench. If nothing else, it will serve notice that Davis is blocking the kid.

I doubt that Mountcastle will sulk if he is not brought up. He's a professional and he understands the business side of the game. If nothing else, it may provide a bit of motivation going into ST next year.

#33 weird-O

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 07:49 AM

Maybe because no young player, just up or on his way up is going to call out the organization

It's not an apples to apples comparison, but Manny called out the O's for not giving him a big raise, after he had a big year. I think it was after his second season, so he was still in his pre-arb years.


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#34 weird-O

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 07:52 AM

If they make his defense an issue to send him down, they have to keep him down more than a few weeks.  

 

But I don't see why saying they want him to play better defense should be looked at as a weak argument, especially if it is a lack of effort, as the scout said in the The Athletic article I linked to in the Norfolk section.  

I didn't see the article, but it sounds like the case for sending him down is getting stronger.


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#35 BSLRobShields

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 08:05 AM

It's not an apples to apples comparison, but Manny called out the O's for not giving him a big raise, after he had a big year. I think it was after his second season, so he was still in his pre-arb years.

But yet he still was good with signing an extension here.

 

So, at the end of the day, money talks much louder than these types of things.


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#36 BSLRobShields

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 08:13 AM

I didn't see the article, but it sounds like the case for sending him down is getting stronger.

To be clear, it was the opinion of one scout.

 

Now, I tend to believe that defense is largely about effort, so if you suck defensively, your effort is lacking there.  In other words, I believe the scout in this case.

 

That being said, that doesn't mean that he isn't better off learning in the majors vs the minors.  Better fields, better coaching, etc....

 

If they bring him up in a few days, I just hope they keep him down next year.

 

Personally, I see a Trey Mancini type guy there...good hitter whose value is suppressed by mediocre defense.  Is that a guy you want to lock into for 6-8 years?  Personally, I don't.

 

The flip side to that is who is the real Mancini?  In other words, if Mancini is an 825-875 OPS guy going forward, I would be more inclined to give that player an extension (not Mancini himself but if that is what Mountcastle is).  But if he is more of the 750-825 OPS guy, I wouldn't want to give that player a contract.  I tend to believe Mancini is the latter and not the former.

 

Of course, Mountcastle is way younger than Mancini and was performing at a high level in the minors at far younger ages than Trey.

 

Its a tough spot IMO.  I think if you are set that with normal progress over the next year or 2 that Mountcastle will get an extension, bringing him up now is fine.  If you aren't sure what you think about him, you steal the additional year and buy yourself a little more time.

 

I think the talent evaluators who are really good already have an idea of these types of things as the player moves through the organization.  


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#37 BSLRobShields

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 04:00 PM

Doesn’t sound like Mountcastle will be brought up.
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