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BSL: The Strategy for Success in the Lamar Jackson Era


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#121 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:09 AM

https://www.sharpfoo...-lamar-jackson/

Sam Monson's rebuttal here (and a few other tweets after the initial one)

 

https://twitter.com/...4106142720?s=20


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#122 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 01:01 PM

Sam Monson's rebuttal here (and a few other tweets after the initial one)

 

https://twitter.com/...4106142720?s=20

 

Yeah, but the article wasn't about Jackson as a passer versus the rest of the league. It was about him as a passer versus Flacco and versus other rookies. The article was saying yes, he looked bad as a rookie, but all rookies look bad. He was extra young. And he's been better than a lot of rookies with a lot better names as rookies. 

 

I view Monson's response as apples to oranges. I also think percentages can be a bit misleading. He could potentially be less in rhythm, and one or two bad throws with so few can really alter the sample quickly.

 

I'd be interested to see where some of the other names referenced in a chart would be all as rookies. Maybe it's the same result. But I think a main theme of the initial article was Jackson was thrown into things without the time or coordination many guys get when they start in the league and outperformed those other rookies. 

 

Monson's point is fine, but it's not the opposite of the point Sharp was trying to make, IMO.



#123 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 02:48 PM

I think they are both valid points. Jackson was put into a situation that he wasn't prepared for, and historcically performed quite well.

 

He also was highly inaccurate and missed many easy throws (while also being helped out by receivers a lot).

 

Both of those things can be and are true.

 

What we should all be hoping for is that he shows significant improvement now that he is the unquestioned starter, and that the coaching staff has installed an offense around him to best utilize his very unique skill-set.


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#124 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 02:57 PM

I think they are both valid points. Jackson was put into a situation that he wasn't prepared for, and historcically performed quite well.

 

He also was highly inaccurate and missed many easy throws (while also being helped out by receivers a lot).

 

Both of those things can be and are true.

 

What we should all be hoping for is that he shows significant improvement now that he is the unquestioned starter, and that the coaching staff has installed an offense around him to best utilize his very unique skill-set.

Yep.  This is what I get out of it too.  Some of what Sharp pointed out was interesting and good news.  However, what Monson pointed out also shows why people aren't really "wrong" about Jackson, at least in the context Sharp is saying it.

 

The issues people have with him are accuracy and the idea of him being able to stay healthy, since he runs so much.

 

Obviously, the health will take care of itself, one way or another.  The accuracy is the real issue.  


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#125 Biggsy

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 05:37 PM

Yep. This is what I get out of it too. Some of what Sharp pointed out was interesting and good news. However, what Monson pointed out also shows why people aren't really "wrong" about Jackson, at least in the context Sharp is saying it.

The issues people have with him are accuracy and the idea of him being able to stay healthy, since he runs so much.

Obviously, the health will take care of itself, one way or another. The accuracy is the real issue.

The health thing is a non-issue in my eyes until he proves he can't stay healthy. Jackson is extremely elusive and fast so it's not exactly easy to line him up and lay him out. All it takes is one good shot, but even Brady missed a full season from a torn acl from one good shot. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen.

His consistency and accuracy are what I'm worried about. He seems to be very streaky.

#126 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 05:57 PM

I don't know, he threw it what, 20 times a game last year? If you're going to use percentages and you've got a guy that barely throws the all, fixing just 3-4 throws a game is going to see an increase in accuracy by nearly 20%. 

 

If you attribute 1-2 throws to boneheaded mechanics, and 1-2 throws to the gameplan and preparation being too little for a rookie, I don't see the percentages as a problem. 

 

To wit, he was 10-14 (71%) in the preseason, and that's completions. I haven't watched, but I don't assume all 4 misses were total duds or ducks but even if they were, the accuracy is there. 



#127 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 07:11 PM

The thing I’m more locked on to is his ability to hit the intermediate and deep routes.

I think he will good enough underneath.

He has to be able to make the throws down field.

The arm talent certainly isn’t the question.
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#128 DWinsChampionships

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 07:59 AM

lol...this is a moronic Statement.

Literally every ranking of QBs has Lamar well into the 20s.

Scouts across the league are definitely unsure about him.

His own damn team is hesitant to have him be a “throwing QB” and yet you think all of them aren’t paying attention?

Lol...really, if anyone isn’t paying attention, it’s you.

What do you think about this?:

https://presnapreads...nfair-standard/

#129 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:12 AM

What do you think about this?:

https://presnapreads...nfair-standard/


I think I was skeptical after reading the title. Then stoped reading after the first sentence. Zero credibility.
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#130 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:15 AM

What do you think about this?:

https://presnapreads...nfair-standard/

Tough to get past the first few sentences.

 

While the black QB stuff exists in a small minority of people (and who gives a shit what those people think anyway?), the bottom line is that anyone who ants to start off talking about that losing credibility with me right away.  Color of skin means nothing..performance does.

 

Warren Sharp put out an article a few weeks ago talking about how Lamar had the best 21 y/o rookie season ever by a QB.  

 

Sam Monson followed up with this:

 

https://twitter.com/...4106142720?s=20

 

 

All sides are right.  The question is, what does Lamar do going forward?  For me, completing 3-5 yard passes, while important, should be completed at a high rate.  What I want to see from Lamar is can he attack all areas of the field and can he do it down the field.  That is the biggest key IMO.

 

He has got to make those 3-6 throws a game that separate the OK QBs from the very good to great ones.  If he can do that, the offense will be very good and he is a sleeper MVP candidate.

 

If he can't, the offense will be predictable and we will see what happened in the playoffs.  Look at the Bears the other night.  What did Tramon Williams say after the game?  "We wanted to make Mitch be a quarterback".  What does that mean?  They wanted to make him throw it.  That is what teams will do to Lamar.  If he can't do it, he won't be successful.

 

His history says he isn't an accurate enough QB to be successful in this league.  Does that mean he can't improve on that?  No, of course not.  He will have better players, better coaches, etc...around him than he had in college and even last year with the Ravens.

 

But, historical speaking (as a general rule with exceptions), poor accuracy in college normally means poor accuracy in the NFL.  So, he is not only going to have to buck that trend but he is going to have to do it while also showing that a running QB can last in the NFL, which is also not the norm.  (and before you point out the guys like Vick, who had many injuries, remember that none of them ran at the level Lamar does or will)

 

Basically, he is going to have to do something that no other QB in the NFL has ever done.  Doesn't mean he can't or won't but the odds aren't in his favor.


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#131 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:22 AM

And it’s a website started by Cian Fahey! The biggest hack around. Now I know I don’t need to read any further into it.
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#132 DWinsChampionships

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:48 AM


And it’s a website started by Cian Fahey! The biggest hack around. Now I know I don’t need to read any further into it.

The football analyses are on point even if you don’t like the sociological opinions put forth by the author. To discount the Xs and Os without reading the full article is kind of weak, don’t you agree?

#133 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:48 AM

And it’s a website started by Cian Fahey! The biggest hack around. Now I know I don’t need to read any further into it.

Fahey is definitely polarizing and a tough follow on Twitter. I did think his actual analysis on Jackson's throwing and the examples shown were interesting.

So was the comparisons in accuracy with his peers.

Know we had Fahey on one of the old podcasts a few times right before he got to ESPN...they seemed to give him a quick push, and then was gone.

#134 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:51 AM

BTW, I generally hate the Xs and Os analysis.

 

The reason for it is that people take a few plays to show their point.  I guarantee you that you could find other plays, where basically the exact same thing happens, and the play doesn't work.

 

I like the analysis if you are trying to show why that play worked at that time.  What I don't like are the blanket statements that so and so is doing this well because he did it well on that play.

 

I need to see similar plays over the course of a much larger sample size before I can see value in that type of analysis.


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#135 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:52 AM

Its interesting to read Cian's thoughts with Rivers prior comments...

https://www.baltimor...n-need-improve/

#136 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:58 AM

The football analyses are on point even if you don’t like the sociological opinions put forth by the author. To discount the Xs and Os without reading the full article is kind of weak, don’t you agree?


To be honest Mike Randall (guy you are quoting here) reached some of the same conclusions Cian did after Jackson's 2nd start...


https://www.baltimor...-going-forward/

#137 85Knight

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:22 AM

Tough to get past the first few sentences.

While the black QB stuff exists in a small minority of people (and who gives a shit what those people think anyway?), the bottom line is that anyone who ants to start off talking about that losing credibility with me right away. Color of skin means nothing..performance does.

Warren Sharp put out an article a few weeks ago talking about how Lamar had the best 21 y/o rookie season ever by a QB.

Sam Monson followed up with this:

https://twitter.com/...4106142720?s=20


All sides are right. The question is, what does Lamar do going forward? For me, completing 3-5 yard passes, while important, should be completed at a high rate. What I want to see from Lamar is can he attack all areas of the field and can he do it down the field. That is the biggest key IMO.

He has got to make those 3-6 throws a game that separate the OK QBs from the very good to great ones. If he can do that, the offense will be very good and he is a sleeper MVP candidate.

If he can't, the offense will be predictable and we will see what happened in the playoffs. Look at the Bears the other night. What did Tramon Williams say after the game? "We wanted to make Mitch be a quarterback". What does that mean? They wanted to make him throw it. That is what teams will do to Lamar. If he can't do it, he won't be successful.

His history says he isn't an accurate enough QB to be successful in this league. Does that mean he can't improve on that? No, of course not. He will have better players, better coaches, etc...around him than he had in college and even last year with the Ravens.

But, historical speaking (as a general rule with exceptions), poor accuracy in college normally means poor accuracy in the NFL. So, he is not only going to have to buck that trend but he is going to have to do it while also showing that a running QB can last in the NFL, which is also not the norm. (and before you point out the guys like Vick, who had many injuries, remember that none of them ran at the level Lamar does or will)

Basically, he is going to have to do something that no other QB in the NFL has ever done. Doesn't mean he can't or won't but the odds aren't in his favor.


The part I don't get is the "extremely inaccurate" argument. Yes, he threw some ugly passes, which he readily admits to all the time, but he only attempted 24 passes over 15 yards and completed 8 of them. Other than that his numbers were pretty good. Does his ball wobble? Yes. Did he dirt some short throws? Yes. But extremely inaccurate sounds like an exaggeration to me and the numbers back it up.

#138 BSLRobShields

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:31 AM

The part I don't get is the "extremely inaccurate" argument. Yes, he threw some ugly passes, which he readily admits to all the time, but he only attempted 24 passes over 15 yards and completed 8 of them. Other than that his numbers were pretty good. Does his ball wobble? Yes. Did he dirt some short throws? Yes. But extremely inaccurate sounds like an exaggeration to me and the numbers back it up.

58% is extremely inaccurate.  That is really bad and remember, that while you can say he was young and learning (which is of course true), that was also with teams not knowing him...teams that couldn't stop the run.  Teams that weren't good.

 

Now, there are good things on each side.  He is older, the offense is catered to him, etc....Thats all true.  But teams also have a lot more tape on him now as well.  That is also true.

 

His completion % in college was 57%.  It never got to 60% in his 3 years.  That is not an accurate thrower of the football.


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#139 BSLRobShields

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 07:25 AM

58% is extremely inaccurate.  That is really bad and remember, that while you can say he was young and learning (which is of course true), that was also with teams not knowing him...teams that couldn't stop the run.  Teams that weren't good.

 

Now, there are good things on each side.  He is older, the offense is catered to him, etc....Thats all true.  But teams also have a lot more tape on him now as well.  That is also true.

 

His completion % in college was 57%.  It never got to 60% in his 3 years.  That is not an accurate thrower of the football.

 

BTW. where did I use the term "extremely inaccurate"?

 

I mean, I don't mind saying it and I agree its semantics but the bottom line is that he has never shown himself to be an accurate QB, no matter what word you want to put in front of it.


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#140 DWinsChampionships

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 12:37 PM

Any naysayers ready to jump on the @Lj_era8 bandwagon yet?




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