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Cashner traded to Boston


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#121 NewMarketSean

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:14 PM

I like that these kids have high OBP.

 

Hopefully that carries through their careers.


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#122 DuffMan

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:36 PM

The big positive for me is this is another sign that the Angelos bros are letting Elias do his thing.


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#123 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:03 PM

Too bad it's not still 1989, where you'd be able to find multiple GM's who'd see his 9-3 record and open up the farm system to you.


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#124 bmore_ken

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 07:27 PM

The big positive for me is this is another sign that the Angelos bros are letting Elias do his thing.

Amen my brother 



#125 Slidemaster

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:07 AM

Maybe I have a different perspective on this because I'm an educator, but again, it is absolutely batshit crazy to me that two kids who aren't even legal adults are being called garbage when they have 6+years of development to undergo.

Baseball is littered with guys who people thought were non-prospects when they were kids, and these guys at least impressed enough to get signed at 16.

Give me a break.

#126 Thirteen

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:50 AM

Maybe I have a different perspective on this because I'm an educator, but again, it is absolutely batshit crazy to me that two kids who aren't even legal adults are being called garbage when they have 6+years of development to undergo.

Baseball is littered with guys who people thought were non-prospects when they were kids, and these guys at least impressed enough to get signed at 16.

Give me a break.

 

Apparently, we have a few international scouting directors and general managers on the board.



#127 weird-O

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:41 AM

Maybe I have a different perspective on this because I'm an educator, but again, it is absolutely batshit crazy to me that two kids who aren't even legal adults are being called garbage when they have 6+years of development to undergo.

Baseball is littered with guys who people thought were non-prospects when they were kids, and these guys at least impressed enough to get signed at 16.

Give me a break.

If I'm reading the general consensus correctly, the complaint isn't that they are garbage. The complaint is that they are so far away from being viable MLB players. We all know this team is going to need a few years before they get back to contending for something. It just seems like this particular return is going beyond that, before it pays dividends. That's not an absolute, either or both may shorten that gap. But in terms of how these things generally play out, a 6 year wait (which seems to be the assumed amount of time it will take to see them in Baltimore) is a long time, even by rebuild standards.   


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#128 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:47 AM

Maybe I have a different perspective on this because I'm an educator, but again, it is absolutely batshit crazy to me that two kids who aren't even legal adults are being called garbage when they have 6+years of development to undergo.

Baseball is littered with guys who people thought were non-prospects when they were kids, and these guys at least impressed enough to get signed at 16.

Give me a break.

As well as many who were "can't miss" that flamed out.



#129 NewMarketSean

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:48 AM

Peter Angelos would have demanded that whoever we got in return was close to MLB ready, if not already in the MLB.

 

How many times have we heard the Orioles say they want MLB players back in a trade?

 

That we traded for 17 year old kids, whether they amount to anything, is a sign of progress in that department.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#130 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:49 AM

If I'm reading the general consensus correctly, the complaint isn't that they are garbage. The complaint is that they are so far away from being viable MLB players. We all know this team is going to need a few years before they get back to contending for something. It just seems like this particular return is going beyond that, before it pays dividends. That's not an absolute, either or both may shorten that gap. But in terms of how these things generally play out, a 6 year wait (which seems to be the assumed amount of time it will take to see them in Baltimore) is a long time, even by rebuild standards.   

You see a playoff team here in less than 6 years? I see a decent rotation at the very least three years away.



#131 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:51 AM

Peter Angelos would have demanded that whoever we got in return was close to MLB ready, if not already in the MLB.

 

How many times have we heard the Orioles say they want MLB players back in a trade?

 

That we traded for 17 year old kids, whether they amount to anything, is a sign of progress in that department.

Amen brother



#132 weird-O

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:52 AM

You see a playoff team here in less than 6 years? I see a decent rotation at the very least three years away.

They better be a playoff caliber in 6 years. If not, they brought in the wrong guy, and it's just another round of kick the can down the road. 


Good news! I saw a dog today.


#133 Mike B

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:23 AM

They better be a playoff caliber in 6 years. If not, they brought in the wrong guy, and it's just another round of kick the can down the road. 

I think Elias is talented, but IMO, if in 5 years we are still a loser, it is worse than the 14 year drought.  The team was bad then, but it had reasons to watch a game.

This is IMO, unwatchable.  I am not okay with winning 40 games for 3 or 4 years in a row.  Maybe it is because I am older,  but the last 2 years have ruined baseball for me.

I think a major league franchise, has a responsibility to field a representative product.  Accepting 40-45 wins a year is not in the cards for me.


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#134 NewMarketSean

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:28 AM

I think Elias is talented, but IMO, if in 5 years we are still a loser, it is worse than the 14 year drought.  The team was bad then, but it had reasons to watch a game.

This is IMO, unwatchable.  I am not okay with winning 40 games for 3 or 4 years in a row.  Maybe it is because I am older,  but the last 2 years have ruined baseball for me.

I think a major league franchise, has a responsibility to field a representative product.  Accepting 40-45 wins a year is not in the cards for me.

 

This is year one.

 

Last year and 2017 was on Pete, Buck and DD. That's what sucked -- you thought they would be good and they were awful.

 

With no expectations comes no disappointment.

 

So this is year one of a rebuild. It will take some time.

 

But if we're still losing 110+ games in 2022, then yeah, you can be angry. I will be too.

 

But I don't expect them to contend for anything before then.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#135 Mike B

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:42 AM

This is year one.

 

Last year and 2017 was on Pete, Buck and DD. That's what sucked -- you thought they would be good and they were awful.

 

With no expectations comes no disappointment.

 

So this is year one of a rebuild. It will take some time.

 

But if we're still losing 110+ games in 2022, then yeah, you can be angry. I will be too.

 

But I don't expect them to contend for anything before then.

My disgust is really not with the players, it is with the whole idea of just flushing the season down the toilet and that being acceptable.

I am not blaming Elias, I made the case for 4 years that Dan D was going to leave a mess of epic proportions.  He did.  

I was a guy who went to 20 -25 games a year, with my sons, so I was buying 75  tickets a year.  I have been to 3 games and I am done.

Not paying to watch this horrible product.  

Again, I am older,  and I grew up playing, coaching and watching every minute I could.  I really don't like the game. with all the shifts, pitchers going 5 innings. all the strike outs and swing for the fence approach.  Throw in the Orioles and others not fielding a major league team, and I find myself moving away from the game.


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#136 SportsGuy

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:46 AM

The team needs to be way better next year. They don’t need to be a contender but a 70+ win team should be expected.

#137 Mike B

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:13 PM

The team needs to be way better next year. They don’t need to be a contender but a 70+ win team should be expected.

Rob, I agree 100 % and I think that is what is bugging me about the Cashner trade, and then reading that the Oriole scouts are all over the lower levels of the minors in preparing for the Givens trade.  It seems to me, that they are willing to sink, this ship lower..


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#138 DJ MC

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:21 PM

Rob, I agree 100 % and I think that is what is bugging me about the Cashner trade, and then reading that the Oriole scouts are all over the lower levels of the minors in preparing for the Givens trade.  It seems to me, that they are willing to sink, this ship lower..

 

This assumes that we don't have guys close or waiting that could help next year.


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#139 Dr. FLK

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:25 PM

Rob, I agree 100 % and I think that is what is bugging me about the Cashner trade, and then reading that the Oriole scouts are all over the lower levels of the minors in preparing for the Givens trade.  It seems to me, that they are willing to sink, this ship lower..

 

Do you think they could have traded 2 months of Cashner for someone who would have made them BETTER next year?  Not someone who would have been on the roster - but someone who would have actually been a real upgrade while also making long term sense for this team?



#140 Slidemaster

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:36 PM

If I'm reading the general consensus correctly, the complaint isn't that they are garbage. The complaint is that they are so far away from being viable MLB players. We all know this team is going to need a few years before they get back to contending for something. It just seems like this particular return is going beyond that, before it pays dividends. That's not an absolute, either or both may shorten that gap. But in terms of how these things generally play out, a 6 year wait (which seems to be the assumed amount of time it will take to see them in Baltimore) is a long time, even by rebuild standards.


By that logic, shouldn't we also not be taking any high school kids in the draft? We just spent all but 2 picks on college aged players. You need talent at every level of the organization. The goal is to build a thriving pipeline of talent, and to do that you need to be planning for the next 5+ years. Furthermore, if they pan out they could be valuable trade chips as well.

Talent isn't static. Prospects can return value to the MLB club in a lot of ways.




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