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Yahoo Sports previews Ravens


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#21 BSLRobShields

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:17 PM

I'm just talking about this next season because I would hope as he develops as a passer the running becomes less and less frequent.

 

I think the two aspects of his game are inextricably tied together, and in the end if he doesn't develop as a passer then I don't see him as a long term solution at QB.

 

For the team to win right now, I do think he needs to use his legs because of the playmaking ability it represents.

Which brings up another point...do you care about his long term health?  And I don't mean that in the cold, callous way it sounds.  I mean, do you just have him do what he does best, do it as often as possible and see what happens or do you start to protect him (from himself) more and try to turn him into the passer you want him to be?

 

My theory is the Ravens weren't really in love with Lamar.  I think they liked him and saw that the upside was tremendous and that the idea of gaining the extra year (as a first rounder) was worth it to give up a second round pick.

 

What I wonder is, if that is true, do they view him as a 10+ year starter or do they view him as a good gimmick guy for the next few years and just get out of him what you possibly can...and if that means running him 15-20 times a game, so be it.


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#22 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:35 PM

Which brings up another point...do you care about his long term health?  And I don't mean that in the cold, callous way it sounds.  I mean, do you just have him do what he does best, do it as often as possible and see what happens or do you start to protect him (from himself) more and try to turn him into the passer you want him to be?

 

My theory is the Ravens weren't really in love with Lamar.  I think they liked him and saw that the upside was tremendous and that the idea of gaining the extra year (as a first rounder) was worth it to give up a second round pick.

 

What I wonder is, if that is true, do they view him as a 10+ year starter or do they view him as a good gimmick guy for the next few years and just get out of him what you possibly can...and if that means running him 15-20 times a game, so be it.

Everyone is looking for a franchise QB but they are pretty rare. Most QB's play in a place 3-5 years and move on. If Lamar makes it that long, it means he's been relatively successful and they will evaluate the QB position during the offseason and decide whether it make sense going in another direction. With Lamar, I want to win now. I am not that interested in developing him all that much. The talent to win is there right now and Lamar has the speed and skillset to be a game changer. That probably has a built-in expiration date, though.


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#23 St.Steveg

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 05:47 PM

Everyone is looking for a franchise QB but they are pretty rare. Most QB's play in a place 3-5 years and move on. If Lamar makes it that long, it means he's been relatively successful and they will evaluate the QB position during the offseason and decide whether it make sense going in another direction. With Lamar, I want to win now. I am not that interested in developing him all that much. The talent to win is there right now and Lamar has the speed and skillset to be a game changer. That probably has a built-in expiration date, though.

That's reasonable, especially considering the Ravens' recent personnel trend, in which when a player gets to the verge of being overpaid, they let him hit the market. Next man up. I don't know that they include franchise QB in that strategy, and if so they need to have an eye open as to who that might be. But right now I think you let it all hang out with Lamar. Again I think there's strategic as well as practical reasons for him to run at a lower rate than last season, but that is the killer part of his game and you have to let him play it for all he's worth.



#24 Biggsy

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:02 PM

Which brings up another point...do you care about his long term health? And I don't mean that in the cold, callous way it sounds. I mean, do you just have him do what he does best, do it as often as possible and see what happens or do you start to protect him (from himself) more and try to turn him into the passer you want him to be?

My theory is the Ravens weren't really in love with Lamar. I think they liked him and saw that the upside was tremendous and that the idea of gaining the extra year (as a first rounder) was worth it to give up a second round pick.

What I wonder is, if that is true, do they view him as a 10+ year starter or do they view him as a good gimmick guy for the next few years and just get out of him what you possibly can...and if that means running him 15-20 times a game, so be it.


I think this is a logical theory. It's possible.

I think you obviously try to develop him as a passer for the simply fact that it increases his longevity. But if your best chance of winning is on his legs, I think you have your answer. If he fails to develop any farther as a passer. I think you see the Ravens run him into the ground to get the most of their investment. I dont think it would be wrong of the Ravens to double dip at QB next offseason if given the opportunity.

#25 BSLRobShields

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 09:50 PM

I think this is a logical theory. It's possible.

I think you obviously try to develop him as a passer for the simply fact that it increases his longevity. But if your best chance of winning is on his legs, I think you have your answer. If he fails to develop any farther as a passer. I think you see the Ravens run him into the ground to get the most of their investment. I dont think it would be wrong of the Ravens to double dip at QB next offseason if given the opportunity.


I do think if they do run him 10+ times a game (and I mean designed runs because we know he will scramble some too), that it tells you they want to get as much out of him now as possible and are less concerned about preserving him long term.

Again, I think that sounds mean when I say it but I don’t want it to be taken that way. It’s just more about the idea of treating him more like a RB than a QB.
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#26 Biggsy

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 06:04 AM

I do think if they do run him 10+ times a game (and I mean designed runs because we know he will scramble some too), that it tells you they want to get as much out of him now as possible and are less concerned about preserving him long term.

Again, I think that sounds mean when I say it but I don’t want it to be taken that way. It’s just more about the idea of treating him more like a RB than a QB.


Like I've been saying. Not using him to his full potential is a disservice to the team. He was given a talent with his legs that not many people possess. I say run him regardless. I'm fine with 10 designed runs a game. Out of 160 attempts, I think it's fair to expect 600+ yards out of them. Barring injury, I'd expect him to be around 3000 yards passing and 1000 yards rushing with around 30 total TD's. I'm happy with that production.

#27 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 06:28 AM

"Jackson is not exactly small, however. He measured 6-foot-2, 216 pounds at the combine. Over the last eight seasons, seven of the NFL’s leader in carries have weighed between 220-228 pounds, and Jackson isn’t too far off that. The exception in that group is LeSean McCoy, who is 210 pounds, has 2,346 career carries and has missed 13 games in 10 seasons. Nobody worries all the time about McCoy getting hurt. Someone like Warrick Dunn was 187 pounds, had 2,669 carries and there wasn’t a constant worry about him taking on injuries. It shouldn’t be inconceivable that Jackson could handle a much larger workload than any other quarterback we’ve ever seen. It just hasn’t happened before.

 

It isn’t entirely logical to think a quarterback has a much greater chance of getting hurt running the ball than a tailback.

 

“I think it’s a little overrated, the whole danger thing,” new Ravens offensive coordinator Greg Roman said, according to the team’s transcripts. “Why? Because, and this is empirical data here, over the years you kind of realize that when a quarterback decides to run, he’s in control. So now [if] he wants to slide, he can slide. If he wants to dive, he can dive, get out of bounds – all of those different things. He can get down, declare himself down.

“A lot of the time, the situations that [have] more danger are when he doesn’t see what’s coming — my eyes are downfield, I’m standing stationary from the pocket, somebody is hitting me from the blindside. My experience, and I kind of learned this, is that when the quarterback takes the ball and starts to run, there’s not a lot of danger involved in that relative to other situations.”

Reading that quote, it doesn’t seem the Ravens will scale back Jackson’s running."

 

The quoted is what interested me in the article. 

 

Rob, to your last few points.... that goes with what I've said about the focus being on his initial contract, particularly with him being cheap. 

 

Nothing is set in-stone imo.  Be that the Ravens won't have interest in an extension (they might), or that Jackson will definitely be the 2020 starter (TBD).  The only definite right now is that he gets this 2019 season. 

My expectations are that he starts during the duration of his initial contract, and leads the Ravens to the post-season several times with a deep team around him. Not sure if they'll give an extension though.

 

I'm not worried about Jackson from the pocket. They'll roll him out a lot.  He'll be very good over the middle with the TE's and Snead.  He has to make teams pay outside in 1x1 when he rolls.  He does that, teams will pay for stacking the box. 

Re: Turnovers...  this is my primary concern. He has to eliminate the unforced errors. One issue he has is how he holds the ball. It's what leads to the flutter at times, and it what causes some fumbles.  With all of the work this season on improving his footwork (1,2, throw..), it was decided they would not work on his grip. That they'd probably work on that next year. 
Even without that change, he has to find ways to not put the ball on the ground, especially those times where he's untouched.  



#28 85Knight

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:04 AM

Jackson's passing gets more scrutiny because he's such a great runner. If he wasn't such an electric runner he would have been just another rookie qb with flaws but he doesn't get that chance from some. He can throw the ball and will develop just like any other young qb and his running and ability to create plays should make his development even easier. Despite this false narrative out there I fully expect him to complete over 60% of his passes and be a very dynamic qb with a lot of highlight reel plays.
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#29 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 07:51 AM

Jackson's passing gets more scrutiny because he's such a great runner. If he wasn't such an electric runner he would have been just another rookie qb with flaws but he doesn't get that chance from some. He can throw the ball and will develop just like any other young qb and his running and ability to create plays should make his development even easier. Despite this false narrative out there I fully expect him to complete over 60% of his passes and be a very dynamic qb with a lot of highlight reel plays.

This isn't even remotely true.  Its just a made up thing that people say.

 

His passing gets scrutinized because its not very good.  His mechanics are very flawed and he isn't accurate.  


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#30 cprenegade

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:58 AM

If Jackson wasn't such an electric runner he probably would not have been drafted, and certainly not in a high round.  Nobody was going to be interested in him with a sub 60% completion pct in college.  Even with his dynamic running skills he was passed over by quite a few teams in need of a QB.  



#31 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:07 AM

If Jackson wasn't such an electric runner he probably would not have been drafted, and certainly not in a high round. Nobody was going to be interested in him with a sub 60% completion pct in college. Even with his dynamic running skills he was passed over by quite a few teams in need of a QB.


Exactly. His uniqueness made him a first round pick and, if the Ravens didn’t trade up, maybe he isn’t even a first rounder anyway.
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#32 Steve55

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:55 PM

Exactly. His uniqueness made him a first round pick and, if the Ravens didn’t trade up, maybe he isn’t even a first rounder anyway.

 

They traded up to get that extra year.



#33 Steve55

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:57 PM

Jackson seems to be smart as a runner. He isn't the size of Cam Newton to challenge defenders. You can see where that got Newton.



#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 03:45 PM

They traded up to get that extra year.


I’m fully aware and already said that a few posts ago.
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#35 85Knight

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:50 AM

If Jackson wasn't such an electric runner he probably would not have been drafted, and certainly not in a high round. Nobody was going to be interested in him with a sub 60% completion pct in college. Even with his dynamic running skills he was passed over by quite a few teams in need of a QB.


Totally untrue. We've gone over this several times. There have been many qb's who were below 60% in college who were drafted in the 1st round and some who went on to be Hall of Famers. Who cares that other teams passed on him because again this happens every draft. All it takes is one team to see something that no one else does.

There is a stigma that comes with being a running qb because the combination of running and passing ability is rare. If Jackson was strictly a passing qb who completed 58% of his passes after being thrown in the fire in midseason the conversation would be totally different. Hell, his numbers were better than the other 1st round qb's other than Mayfield.

We've seen Jackson make great passes in college and even glimpses last season as a raw rookie. He doesn't have prototypical style but he brings instincts that the coaches talk about all the time like his ability to see the whole field and throw guys open. That's a natural ability that even Flacco didn't have.

Let's see what his numbers look like this season before labeling him as strictly a runner after only seeing him for 8 games. If he comes anywhere near the playmaking ability we saw from him in college we're in for something special around here for a long time.
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#36 Ricker Says

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:15 AM

Totally untrue. We've gone over this several times. There have been many qb's who were below 60% in college who were drafted in the 1st round and some who went on to be Hall of Famers. Who cares what other teams passed on him because again this happens every draft. All it takes is one team to see something that no one else does.

There is a stigma that comes with being a running qb because the combination of running and passing ability is rare. If Jackson was strictly a passing qb who completed 58% of his passes after being thrown in the fire in midseason the conversation would be totally different. Hell, his numbers were better than the other 1st round qb's other than Mayfield.

We've seen Jackson make great passes in college and even glimpses last season as a raw rookie. He doesn't have prototypical style but he brings instincts that the coaches talk about all the time like his ability to see the whole field and throw guys open. That's a natural ability that even Flacco didn't have.

Let's see what his numbers look like this season before labeling him as strictly a runner after only seeing him for 8 games. If he comes anywhere near the playmaking ability we saw from him in college we're in for something special around here for a long time.

He's no more raw a rookie than most rookie QB's. He started 38 games in college, and won a Heisman. Mayfield started 48 in college, Rosen 30, Darnold 27, Josh Allen 27. Each of them passed with similar efficiency as they did in college. The "raw rookie" argument for Jackson with regards to him somehow magically learning how to pass in the toughest league on earth, when he couldn't do it in the ACC, is very flawed. It has nothing to do with what you think it has to do with. It comes down to him being who he is. 


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#37 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:20 AM

He's no more raw a rookie than most rookie QB's. He started 38 games in college, and won a Heisman. Mayfield started 48 in college, Rosen 30, Darnold 27, Josh Allen 27. Each of them passed with similar efficiency as they did in college. The "raw rookie" argument for Jackson with regards to him somehow magically learning how to pass in the toughest league on earth, when he couldn't do it in the ACC, is very flawed. It has nothing to do with what you think it has to do with. It comes down to him being who he is. 

 

He completed passes at a higher rate in the NFL as a rookie than he did 2/3 years in college.

 

Saying he can't continue to move his completion percentage up a point or two as he gets more experience is crazy.

 

Not sure how you can say a player "is who he is" after he's started 8 NFL games.


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#38 Ricker Says

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:21 AM

He completed passes at a higher rate in the NFL as a rookie than he did 2/3 years in college.

 

Saying he can't continue to move his completion percentage up a point or two as he gets more experience is crazy.

 

Not sure how you can say a player "is who he is" after he's started 8 NFL games.

The same as his last year in college, which makes sense. I'm not saying he can't move it up a point or two - I'm saying that doesn't matter, and it still won't make him all that different than who he is right now. But hey, don't mind me, I've been saying the same thing since draft day. I hope I'm wrong. 


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#39 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:26 AM

The same as his last year in college, which makes sense. I'm not saying he can't move it up a point or two - I'm saying that doesn't matter, and it still won't make him all that different than who he is right now. But hey, don't mind me, I've been saying the same thing since draft day. I hope I'm wrong. 

 

I think we've seen his floor, which is what he did as a rookie last year.

 

I think he can only improve personally, especially through passing and decision making, but that's just me.

 

And, I just watched his highlights from last year and am excited to see him improve.


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#40 85Knight

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:37 AM

He's no more raw a rookie than most rookie QB's. He started 38 games in college, and won a Heisman. Mayfield started 48 in college, Rosen 30, Darnold 27, Josh Allen 27. Each of them passed with similar efficiency as they did in college. The "raw rookie" argument for Jackson with regards to him somehow magically learning how to pass in the toughest league on earth, when he couldn't do it in the ACC, is very flawed. It has nothing to do with what you think it has to do with. It comes down to him being who he is.


I honestly don't get your point. Passing for 9,000 yds. in 3 years in college is getting it done. He doesn't have to make a giant leap to become an effective passer in the NFL. Even completing 61-62% will make him very dangerous and I expect that at minimum.

I used the word raw because he didn't have a lot of practice as the starter before he was thrown in there. Do you disagree with that too?




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