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Elias discusses trade deadline, prospects, first half, etc...


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#21 russsnyder

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:20 AM

So what?

 

Do you think Mets fans are still walking around embarrassed over 1960? Detroit over 2003?

 

Will you still care about the 2018 or 2019 Orioles in ten years?

 

How often do you dwell on the 4-32 finish in 2002? Or the 30-3 game in 2007? Or the 0-21 streak in 1988?

 

Every franchise in pro sports has a bad stretch. Some are worse than others but if you're a loser, it sucks plain and simple.

 

Get the 1-1 picks, start doing the shit we should have been doing for decades, and get this ship straightened out.

 

    This is the way I'm looking at it.

 

     I get where people may be turned off by the losing, however, the Orioles haven't been competitive since mid to late 2017.

 

     Elias got a pretty good pick in Rutschman IMO . That pick is on the previous regime.

 

     Hopefully, the Orioles get the # 1 pick 2020 and they improve enough not to have the top slot in 2021.

 

      

 

      I



#22 Mackus

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:26 AM

Get the 1-1 picks, start doing the shit we should have been doing for decades, and get this ship straightened out.

 

I'll take 1-4 and 1-6 the next two years instead, not have had to put up with this degree of awful baseball (it's really the lack of decent baseball that sucks, not the horror of watching the awful baseball, I miss wanting to watch the games), and end up no worse off than the your squad that might have gotten the 1-1 or might have gotten beaten to bottom by another team who overvalues the 1st pick.



#23 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:56 AM

So what?

 

Do you think Mets fans are still walking around embarrassed over 1960? Detroit over 2003?

 

Will you still care about the 2018 or 2019 Orioles in ten years?

 

How often do you dwell on the 4-32 finish in 2002? Or the 30-3 game in 2007? Or the 0-21 streak in 1988?

 

Every franchise in pro sports has a bad stretch. Some are worse than others but if you're a loser, it sucks plain and simple.

 

Get the 1-1 picks, start doing the shit we should have been doing for decades, and get this ship straightened out.

That's where I'm at on it.



#24 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

The most painful part of this season isn’t the losing but who we’re losing with. We have a lot of interesting prospects at AA and below but AAA has been a barren wasteland outside of Mountcastle, Akin, and Stewart. Other than Means and maybe Sisco the rest of the active roster is essentially filler. I’ll be excited to watch the guys who could be on our next great team even if we continue to lose.

#25 russsnyder

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:24 AM


The most painful part of this season isn’t the losing but who we’re losing with. We have a lot of interesting prospects at AA and below but AAA has been a barren wasteland outside of Mountcastle, Akin, and Stewart. Other than Means and maybe Sisco the rest of the active roster is essentially filler. I’ll be excited to watch the guys who could be on our next great team even if we continue to lose.


I would have preferred Stewart being on the roster right now instead Norfolk. I think you can make the argument that Davis is blocking him. Let's see what he can do. I'm good with guys like Mountcastle, Akin getting their time in minors. Also, the Orioles did a real good job with Sisco IMO. They sent him to Norfolk during ST. He played well there and he has been hitting at a pretty good clip. It's painful, but rather see the retreads than rush anyone this year.
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#26 dude

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:32 PM

He wants to win long term and have it be sustainable. This is the price. Get used to it, long-winded Trea.

 

This is the price for the Angeloses and Elias operating for 3+ years with no accountability for results.

 

I have no issues with what they are doing internally for long-term success. 

That should happen regardless of your in-year approach to W-L.

 

The Dodgers have the most wins in baseball and they are doing the same things.



#27 DJ MC

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:18 PM

This is the price for the Angeloses and Elias operating for 3+ years with no accountability for results.

 

I have no issues with what they are doing internally for long-term success. 

That should happen regardless of your in-year approach to W-L.

 

The Dodgers have the most wins in baseball and they are doing the same things.

 

Yep. Because the 2014 Dodgers and the 2018 Orioles were practically the same team.


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#28 dude

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 09:27 PM

Yep. Because the 2014 Dodgers and the 2018 Orioles were practically the same team.

 

...so you didn't understand what I wrote?  That's what your comment suggests.



#29 DJ MC

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 08:22 AM

...so you didn't understand what I wrote?  That's what your comment suggests.

 

I understand that you made an irrelevant comparison.

 

A team replacing its GM coming off of 94 wins and a playoff appearance and rebuilding in the background is in an entirely different situation than one doing the same coming off of 115 losses.


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#30 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 06:43 PM

I understand that you made an irrelevant comparison.

 

A team replacing its GM coming off of 94 wins and a playoff appearance and rebuilding in the background is in an entirely different situation than one doing the same coming off of 115 losses.

 

So you think Losing (which is "This" in McNulty's comment which I quoted) "is the key to long term success and have it be sustainable".

 

....because in terms of long term sustainable success, the best team in the league (as well as every other team) is doing the EXACT SAME THINGS as the Orioles.



#31 DJ MC

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 09:53 PM

So you think Losing (which is "This" in McNulty's comment which I quoted) "is the key to long term success and have it be sustainable".

 

....because in terms of long term sustainable success, the best team in the league (as well as every other team) is doing the EXACT SAME THINGS as the Orioles.

 

It doesn't matter what I think. It matters that the comparison is bad.


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#32 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 10:06 PM

It doesn't matter what I think. It matters that the comparison is bad.

 

What do you think the comparison is?



#33 DJ MC

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 10:14 PM

What do you think the comparison is?

 

https://www.baltimor...e-2#entry825375


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#34 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 10:52 PM

https://www.baltimor...e-2#entry825375

 

post #29  ^^^ has nothing to do with what I said...I'm asking you why you think it does.

 

McNulty's comment earlier suggested Losing (now) is the price for building a long term sustainable winner.

 

Losing now has little to nothing to do with building a long term sustainable winner.

 

The Dodgers (with the best record) and every other team, at least in theory, are doing things to be a long term sustainable winner.

 

They all think they are.  Everyone is trying to draft well.  Most are trying to leverage the IFA market.  Most look for undervalued or other talent opportunities.

 

If Elias and Company are better at it than others (TBD) then you can have it or something like it.

 

Losing today ("This" from his post) is not the reason you have a long term, sustainable winner.



#35 DJ MC

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 10:57 PM

post #29  ^^^ has nothing to do with what I said

 

Sure.


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#36 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:01 PM

Sure.

 

You guys want to do this, fine.

 

Tell me what the Orioles are doing this season to build a long term sustainable winner that the Dodgers aren't doing.



#37 DJ MC

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:03 PM

You guys want to do this, fine.

 

Tell me what the Orioles are doing this season to build a long term sustainable winner that the Dodgers aren't doing.

 

Nah. I'll stick with my ongoing point that you haven't refuted over fighting your strawman army.


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#38 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:08 PM

Nah. I'll stick with my ongoing point that you haven't refuted over fighting your strawman army.

 

I know nobody really wants to address the question because the answer means 'rebuilding' is largely useless and they'd be forced to confront their opinion of it which they've been sold as necessary for some level of success in the future, and it's wrong.

 

It does serve to reduce expectations so that the fan-base views losing as success.



#39 dude

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:10 PM

Evidence

 

He wants to win long term and have it be sustainable. This is the price. 



#40 JoyinMudville

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:52 AM

Agree.  Very disappointed in the things Duquette valued in those trades.  The cost cutting (not paying salary, dumping O'Day) was either a directive from ownership or Duquette trying to do something he felt they would like in order to get an extension.  But targeting quantity over quality and taking on the $2.5M in international bonus they had no intentions of using were all him and those were baffling decisions.

 

I liked the Machado trade and the Schoop trade at the time.  Still do like the Machado trade.  But the Britton and Gausman trades really pissed me off.  Got absolutely no solid MLB-ability talent back, IMO.  Maybe Tate can become a passable MR and salvage some of that, but even that feels like a stretch to me at this point.

The Gausman trade is the one that infuriates me. He could have been a fixture in a future Orioles rotation.






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