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NBA 2019-20 General Talk


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#401 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 06:15 AM

Grizzlies get Tyus Jones, who led the NBA in assist to TO ratio last year.

Been a better pro than I thought he would be.

Smart player...good guy for Morant to have around him.
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#402 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 09:09 AM

Rob, what's your semi recent track record regarding predicting success of Duke players?

#403 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:41 AM

Rob, what's your semi recent track record regarding predicting success of Duke players?



I thought Jabari would be a 20/10 guy but injuries have hurt him..still been productive, shot at a good percentage, etc..but not the player I thought he would be.

I like Winslow to become a solid player and said his shooting from the outside would improve, which it has. He doesn’t do as much scoring yet but he’s still young, for a modest second contract and seems to be a good rotational
Player.

I don’t remember what I thought about Ingram. I think I thought he would be good but was worried about his frame. Lots of upside.

I thought Tatum should be the first pick.

I was on an island saying Kyrie was better than Wall.

I like Carter Jr to become a good player...maybe even an AS but obviously health has to be there.

I think Kennard is and will be what I thought would be.

I thought JJ would be a better pro than people thought because people thought he was only a shooter. He did more than that.
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#404 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 10:52 AM

Going way back with JJ.

You forgot to mention Okafor, who I recall you liked.

So out of the more recent guys, it looks like you were right about Kyrie and maybe Tatum (very disappointing 2nd season).

Way off on Parker and Okafor. Off on Winslow so far as you and others were really high on him, but maybe he'll step it up.

Hard to say on Ingram based on your lack of recollection as well as the jury still being out in him.

#405 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 11:53 AM

Going way back with JJ.

You forgot to mention Okafor, who I recall you liked.

So out of the more recent guys, it looks like you were right about Kyrie and maybe Tatum (very disappointing 2nd season).

Way off on Parker and Okafor. Off on Winslow so far as you and others were really high on him, but maybe he'll step it up.

Hard to say on Ingram based on your lack of recollection as well as the jury still being out in him.

I did like Okafor.  I didn't take enough into account of how the game is played.

 

Coming out of college, he had 4 knocks against him:

 

1) Body...which he didn't do anything to improve until the last year....that was lazy on his part.

2) rebounding...for his size, he wasn't a great rebounder in college

3)  Defense (partially goes back to body)

4) FT shooting

 

I said I thought he would improve on 3 of those 4 but wasn't sure he would be better defensively.

 

As I said, his body has shown huge improvements but it took him a while to do it.

 

His FT shooting was barely over 50% at Duke...its close to 70% in the NBA.

 

Rebounding hasn't really gotten better and he has been a track wreck defensively.

 

His first season wasn't bad.  In 30M per game, he average 17.5 and 7 boards..shot 51%.  But he really went downhill from there and a lot of that had to do with todays game, position less basketball, 3 point shooting, etc...

 

What I liked about him in college is that he had great hands, was excellent around the rim and a good post player.  His shot was developing and it wasn't poor form or anything.  Hid career FG% of over 53% would indicate that those parts of his game are still solid though.  It seems to me that he didn't keep trying to get better at the level he needed to.  Maybe that has changed with the way he has changed his body and he will get some kind of an opportunity with NO now.  They wanted to keep him and he is surrounded by a lot of Duke players, which maybe will be a good thing for him.  His career averages are 11 and 5...Tough to think he will be too much more than that at this point but he did have a PER of almost 20 last year, which isn't bad for a part time guy.  He is a rotational player and will certainly never live up to his draft position.  He should have been draft 15 years ago...probably would have been a much better player for the way the game used to be played.

 

And btw, outside of you just being your normal self here, what is your point in bringing this up?  


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#406 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 11:58 AM

And Tatum is clearly the pick over Fultz and Ball.


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#407 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 11:58 AM

And btw, outside of you just being your normal self here, what is your point in bringing this up?  

 

I think he's implying you might have some blue colored glasses for Barrett...



#408 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:07 PM

I think he's implying you might have some blue colored glasses for Barrett...

Well here's the thing...I don't deny his faults but unlike Mike, I actually watched him.  I am not taking the word of a few people, who probably have a middling track record (as most of those guys do) and standing behind it.  And unlike Mike, I look at his age and say hey, he could get better with these things and not brand him for life.

 

I don't really care that much if he succeeds or fails.  I will root for him and I hope he does well but once they leave Duke, I care a little less because I don't really watch the NBA that much.  

 

However, the kid is a natural scorer, a good rebounder, decent defensively and will improve his shot.  Will he be the best player in this draft?  Probably not. Could someone that got drafted after him be better?  Of course.  To me, it was a no brainer to take him at 3.  

 

I worry about his efficiency and he needs to improve on that...as I said before, I would cringe in late game situations at times because of the hero ball aspect of things for him.  OTOH, since I watched every game and knew that team very well, I also understand his reasoning for not always getting others involved...with the exception of Zion.  But again, you wouldn't know that if you don't watch.

 

I also think the college game trapped him somewhat..he didn't have a lot of room to maneuver in the paint and he would get bottled up at times..that won't be as big of an issue in the NBA.


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#409 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:13 PM

I did like Okafor. I didn't take enough into account of how the game is played.

Coming out of college, he had 4 knocks against him:

1) Body...which he didn't do anything to improve until the last year....that was lazy on his part.
2) rebounding...for his size, he wasn't a great rebounder in college
3) Defense (partially goes back to body)
4) FT shooting

I said I thought he would improve on 3 of those 4 but wasn't sure he would be better defensively.

As I said, his body has shown huge improvements but it took him a while to do it.

His FT shooting was barely over 50% at Duke...its close to 70% in the NBA.

Rebounding hasn't really gotten better and he has been a track wreck defensively.

His first season wasn't bad. In 30M per game, he average 17.5 and 7 boards..shot 51%. But he really went downhill from there and a lot of that had to do with todays game, position less basketball, 3 point shooting, etc...

What I liked about him in college is that he had great hands, was excellent around the rim and a good post player. His shot was developing and it wasn't poor form or anything. Hid career FG% of over 53% would indicate that those parts of his game are still solid though. It seems to me that he didn't keep trying to get better at the level he needed to. Maybe that has changed with the way he has changed his body and he will get some kind of an opportunity with NO now. They wanted to keep him and he is surrounded by a lot of Duke players, which maybe will be a good thing for him. His career averages are 11 and 5...Tough to think he will be too much more than that at this point but he did have a PER of almost 20 last year, which isn't bad for a part time guy. He is a rotational player and will certainly never live up to his draft position. He should have been draft 15 years ago...probably would have been a much better player for the way the game used to be played.

And btw, outside of you just being your normal self here, what is your point in bringing this up?


The biggest problem besides outside shooting for Okafor was defense. Same with Parker. So while their traditional stats are solid, they really aren't nearly as good as they would suggest.

As for why I brought it up, well your Tyus Jones comment made me think of it and how it relates to the Duke guys that were just drafted.

#410 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:17 PM

Well here's the thing...I don't deny his faults but unlike Mike, I actually watched him. I am not taking the word of a few people, who probably have a middling track record (as most of those guys do) and standing behind it. And unlike Mike, I look at his age and say hey, he could get better with these things and not brand him for life.

I don't really care that much if he succeeds or fails. I will root for him and I hope he does well but once they leave Duke, I care a little less because I don't really watch the NBA that much.

However, the kid is a natural scorer, a good rebounder, decent defensively and will improve his shot. Will he be the best player in this draft? Probably not. Could someone that got drafted after him be better? Of course. To me, it was a no brainer to take him at 3.

I worry about his efficiency and he needs to improve on that...as I said before, I would cringe in late game situations at times because of the hero ball aspect of things for him. OTOH, since I watched every game and knew that team very well, I also understand his reasoning for not always getting others involved...with the exception of Zion. But again, you wouldn't know that if you don't watch.

I also think the college game trapped him somewhat..he didn't have a lot of room to maneuver in the paint and he would get bottled up at times..that won't be as big of an issue in the NBA.


Well based on your track record with these Duke guys, it doesn't seem like watching them has given you any sort of edge at all.

Your last part of that first paragraph (look at his age...) is complete BS. You knew that when you wrote it too, but I guess you can't help yourself.

#411 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:21 PM

Well based on your track record with these Duke guys, it doesn't seem like watching them has given you any sort of edge at all.

Your last part of that first paragraph (look at his age...) is complete BS. You knew that when you wrote it too, but I guess you can't help yourself.

Its not bs.  You said you don't watch college and didn't really see him play and you are absolutely relying on a few guys to tell you how good or bad he is.

 

Plenty of scouts and "experts" out there love him as a prospect too.

 

And yes, you are painting him into a corner but that's not to you.

 

And my track record with these guys is probably a higher percentage than draft picks in general are.


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#412 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:24 PM

And Tatum is clearly the pick over Fultz and Ball.


Well that's not saying much at all in regards to Fultz, and that's not a scouting win either because we've never even gotten to see the version of Fultz that got drafted due to whatever unusual issues he's dealt with. As for Ball, yes, right now you'd take Tatum over him.

However, as to Tatum reaching the potential that you said he had while saying he should be the top pick, that is still very much in question. He looked like a future star his rookie year, but not so much after year 2. Next year will tell us a lot.

#413 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:29 PM

Well that's not saying much at all in regards to Fultz, and that's not a scouting win either because we've never even gotten to see the version of Fultz that got drafted due to whatever unusual issues he's dealt with. As for Ball, yes, right now you'd take Tatum over him.

However, as to Tatum reaching the potential that you said he had while saying he should be the top pick, that is still very much in question. He looked like a future star his rookie year, but not so much after year 2. Next year will tell us a lot.

Well, everything swirling around Boston and Kyrie last year seemed to effect a lot of their young players.  Agree that this is a big year for him though.  Boston still wasn't willing to deal him (or at least not much else besides him) for AD.  They obviously still believe in him and aren't deterred by him struggling somewhat last season.

 

And that's true on Fultz but so what?  Things cause players to fail all the time.  I just felt Tatum was the better player (although I hadn't seen Fultz much at all) and was the guy to take #1...same thing with Ball.  


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#414 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:30 PM

Its not bs. You said you don't watch college and didn't really see him play and you are absolutely relying on a few guys to tell you how good or bad he is.

Plenty of scouts and "experts" out there love him as a prospect too.

And yes, you are painting him into a corner but that's not to you.

And my track record with these guys is probably a higher percentage than draft picks in general are.


I specifically said which part was BS. Read.

And I don't think that last part is true for top prospects. You simply have a conventional track record with these guys, one that doesn't seem to be benefited by watching. You basically are largely aligned with the consensus views. Most other people were really high on Kyrie, Winslow, Parker, Okafor, and Tatum too.

#415 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:30 PM

Well, everything swirling around Boston and Kyrie last year seemed to effect a lot of their young players. Agree that this is a big year for him though. Boston still wasn't willing to deal him (or at least not much else besides him) for AD. They obviously still believe in him and aren't deterred by him struggling somewhat last season.

And that's true on Fultz but so what? Things cause players to fail all the time. I just felt Tatum was the better player (although I hadn't seen Fultz much at all) and was the guy to take #1...same thing with Ball.


The so what part is pretty obvious. Come on, Rob, don't be obtuse.

#416 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:34 PM

The so what part is pretty obvious. Come on, Rob, don't be obtuse.

its a weird case, sure...doesn't change that I thought Tatum would be better.

 

The idea that Fultz has been hurt and is a mental midget isn't a "scouting win" but saying Tatum should have gone 1st is.  

 

Are you saying that Fultz isn't a bust because its a "weird circumstance"?  That he gets a pass?


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#417 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:35 PM

Well that's not saying much at all in regards to Fultz, and that's not a scouting win either because we've never even gotten to see the version of Fultz that got drafted due to whatever unusual issues he's dealt with. As for Ball, yes, right now you'd take Tatum over him.

However, as to Tatum reaching the potential that you said he had while saying he should be the top pick, that is still very much in question. He looked like a future star his rookie year, but not so much after year 2. Next year will tell us a lot.


No Kyrie = better Tatum.

#418 BSLRobShields

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:36 PM

I specifically said which part was BS. Read.

And I don't think that last part is true for top prospects. You simply have a conventional track record with these guys, one that doesn't seem to be benefited by watching. You basically are largely aligned with the consensus views. Most other people were really high on Kyrie, Winslow, Parker, Okafor, and Tatum too.

I stand by it.  I think you only have a view because a few guys said it and you aren't taking his age and situation enough into account. (and neither did the one article I read)

 

Im good with it.  Its pretty consistent from you since you don't watch CBB.


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#419 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:41 PM

its a weird case, sure...doesn't change that I thought Tatum would be better.

The idea that Fultz has been hurt and is a mental midget isn't a "scouting win" but saying Tatum should have gone 1st is.

Are you saying that Fultz isn't a bust because its a "weird circumstance"? That he gets a pass?


I'm not saying he isn't a bust, I'm saying that any takes on how good he would be are irrelevant unless someone was saying he was going to have some issue in his shoulder and/or head that would lead to him forgetting how to shoot.

You were high on Tatum, and that's cool and all that matters here, not how he stacks up to Fultz or anyone else in the draft for that matter. There's a decent chance that Tatum won't be the best player from that draft, but I won't hold it against you if he becomes a star and Mitchell, Fox, or whomever becomes a bigger star.

#420 mweb08

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 12:43 PM

I stand by it. I think you only have a view because a few guys said it and you aren't taking his age and situation enough into account. (and neither did the one article I read)

Im good with it. Its pretty consistent from you since you don't watch CBB.


Yes, I don't take age into consideration. So absurd.

Also, I paid attention to about 10 draft guys.




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