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2019 NFL General Talk


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#681 cprenegade

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:55 PM

I think Rudolph deserved a game, but IMO Garrett started it, by driving MR into the ground and then not getting off him. The league, which is generally full of crap, would have confirmed i, had they not come down hard.
As a Raven fan, I would be fine, if they disbanded both franchises. :-P


I wouldn't go that way. I get that Rudolph helped escalate the situation and it wasn't very smart on his part. But as you said, Garrett started it by driving him into the ground well after the ball was out. Put that situation on the Ravens. If the same thing happened and Garrett went after Lamar Jackson because he got heated with Garrett would you think Jackson should be suspended because he didn't back away? Garrett took the initiative to yank the QB up by the facemask and pull off his helmet. That alone would probably draw a suspension or at least a fine. But using a helmet as a weapon cannot be tolerated. Rudolph clearly needs to be smarter in that situation, but that doesn't change the fact that Garrett assaulted him by the legal definition. You can't have that.

#682 mdrunning

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:20 PM

I listened to Kellerman all morning on ESPN.   He took a lot of heat from Steven A, Louis Riddick and others.

 

Kellerman is wrong IMO.

Remember, the goal of sports "journalism" isn't so much to report facts, but to create controversy.



#683 mdrunning

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:23 PM

Rudolph shouldn’t be suspended. What he did happens enough and no one gets suspended for it.

Maybe the league figured if they did suspend him, they'd actually be doing the Steelers a favor.



#684 BSLRobShields

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:51 PM

Burfict, the guy that stepped on Lagarrette Blount’s leg? And has been fined or suspended like 12 times because of his inability to not hit people’s heads? His very, very prolific relationship with fines and suspensions are enough for me to agree with the season-long suspension.
I also don’t buy that Haynesworth was a different climate/rules. It was what, 13 years ago? A long time, but not exactly an eternity. The rules for player conduct have not changed in any subsequent CBA, and all the transgressions we’ve cited were just as illegal then as they are now. And there was just as much outrage then as there is with Garrett. Another more recent example is Ndamukong Suh, who got 2 games in 2011 for stomping on a player, and then got only a single game when he did it again in 2014. (He got off way too light IMO.)
As I mentioned, I’m ok with going on the harsher end for punishment given the NFL emphasis on player safety. But I do think the Haynesworth incident is a reasonable benchmark for players on their first suspension that did really horrible things.


The climate today is way different than even 7 years ago, much less 13
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#685 hallas

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 03:03 AM

The climate today is way different than even 7 years ago, much less 13


I don't see any supporting evidence of this. Even 6 games is far beyond any suspension for on-field conduct handed down in the past 10 years with the exception of Burfict, who was a super-duper-repeat offender. The last two fighting-related suspensions were Shaq Lawson/Leonard Fournette (who received 1 game each in 2018) and Aqib Talib/Michael Crabtree (2 games reduced to 1 on appeal, 2017.) I watched both fights and they were pretty ugly. This one was worse, but not like 10-12 games worse.

#686 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:37 AM

You don’t see evidence supporting thiis?

Have you paid attention to the NFL during all the “protect the head” stuff? Or targeting penalities, etc...have you not seen that stuff

It’s not even close how the league looks at things like that now vs 13 years ago.

And this is basically the worst thing ever done on an NFL field..the only reason you don’t think it’s worth more games is because Rudolph wasn’t hurt.
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#687 Steve55

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:31 AM

Maybe the league figured if they did suspend him, they'd actually be doing the Steelers a favor.

 

I've seen many Steeler fans comment the same. After 4 INT's he should have been on the bench.



#688 Steve55

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:36 AM

What exactly were the Steelers trying to accomplish besides stats throwing the ball with 10 sec left down 14 pts.?

They could have just taken a knee and let the clock run out.

 

I will reference the Sunday night NE game. Once Jackson's TD put the Ravens up by 17, NE got the ball back with 3+ min to go. They didn't try to score. They knew the game was over.



#689 Mackus

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:38 AM

What exactly were the Steelers trying to accomplish besides stats throwing the ball with 10 sec left down 14 pts.?
They could have just taken a knee and let the clock run out.

I will reference the Sunday night NE game. Once Jackson's TD put the Ravens up by 17, NE got the ball back with 3+ min to go. They didn't try to score. They knew the game was over.

I think you see last ditch, hopeless plays far more often than kneeldowns in that scenario. I'd say like 5 to 1 as often.

#690 russsnyder

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 10:21 AM

What exactly were the Steelers trying to accomplish besides stats throwing the ball with 10 sec left down 14 pts.?
They could have just taken a knee and let the clock run out.

I will reference the Sunday night NE game. Once Jackson's TD put the Ravens up by 17, NE got the ball back with 3+ min to go. They didn't try to score. They knew the game was over.


The pass play really made zero sense. Prior to that play Rudolph had been sacked on the two previous plays. Instead of a kneel down, I would have run a draw and have let the clock run out. The Steelers 200k fine was probably based on the stupid play call. Lol.
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#691 Mike B

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 01:03 PM

Remember, the goal of sports "journalism" isn't so much to report facts, but to create controversy.

Agreed, and that is exactly what he was doing,  It just felt over the top to me,


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#692 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 02:42 PM

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#693 hallas

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 04:57 PM

You don’t see evidence supporting thiis?

Have you paid attention to the NFL during all the “protect the head” stuff? Or targeting penalities, etc...have you not seen that stuff

It’s not even close how the league looks at things like that now vs 13 years ago.

And this is basically the worst thing ever done on an NFL field..the only reason you don’t think it’s worth more games is because Rudolph wasn’t hurt.

I don’t think the rules changes around targeting have anything to do with fighting. Haynesworth and Garrett are the only two people that I could find that received more than 2 games for fighting in the past several decades. Even on targeting suspensions, Burfict is the only one to receive more than 2 games. One guy from 5 years ago swung a helmet at another player and received 2 games. So yes, I don’t see any evidence that the targeting rules have had any effect on fighting penalties.

#694 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:03 PM

I don’t think the rules changes around targeting have anything to do with fighting. Haynesworth and Garrett are the only two people that I could find that received more than 2 games for fighting in the past several decades. Even on targeting suspensions, Burfict is the only one to receive more than 2 games. One guy from 5 years ago swung a helmet at another player and received 2 games. So yes, I don’t see any evidence that the targeting rules have had any effect on fighting penalties.


It’s player safety and he got hit in the damn head (which of course is the focus of player safety) with a heavy helmet.

It is 1000% different. I really can’t believe you are even trying to argue this point.

You really think the league placed an importance on player safety and head injuries in 2006?
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#695 hallas

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 10:51 PM

It’s player safety and he got hit in the damn head (which of course is the focus of player safety) with a heavy helmet.

It is 1000% different. I really can’t believe you are even trying to argue this point.

You really think the league placed an importance on player safety and head injuries in 2006?

Emphasis on player safety and head injuries has not carried over to fighting or cheap shots.  I'll reiterate the many examples I provided above and add some additional ones, since you seem to be conveniently ignoring evidence supporting my argument.

 

2011.  Ndamukong Suh.  Steps on Evan Dietrich-Smith's face.  2 games.

2013.  Richie Incognito and Antonio Smith.  Helmet forcibly removed and swung.  1 game suspension.

2014.  Dominic Raiola.  Steps on Ego Ferguson's leg.  1 game.

2014.  Ndamukong Suh.  Steps on Aaron Rodgers (!) leg.  1 game, reduced to a fine on appeal.

2017.  Aqib Talib and Michael Crabtree.  Multiple punches thrown, helmets forcibly removed. 2 games, reduced on appeal to 1.

2018.  Leonard Fournette and Shaq Lawson.  Helmet forcibly removed, punches thrown, and Lawson pushed into the stands.  1 game.

2019.  Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi, Maurkice Pouncey.  Big scrum, helmet removed, Garrett swings helmet.  6+ for Garrett, 1 for Ogunjobi, 3 for Pouncey.

 

One of these suspensions stands out and does not belong.  I'm okay with that anyway, but unless you think that 2019 is the year of player safety and the years before that the league didn't care (definitely not buying that) I'm not sure how you can think that it's a trend that player safety has anything to do with unsportsmanlike conduct suspensions relating to fighting or violent non-football moves.  And I certainly don't think that the league needs to hand down a 10+ game suspension to be consistent - they've pretty much set the bar at 1-2 games for "routine" transgressions involving a suspension, continuing that trend as recently as last season.


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#696 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 12:14 AM

Yea, you are missing the point here.

This beyond cheap shots and fighting.

You are on an island here.
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#697 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 07:38 AM

Yea, you are missing the point here.

This beyond cheap shots and fighting.

You are on an island here.


I think the Suh ones are comparable. Using your cleat as a weapon instead of the helmet. Some of the others listed are just fights where the helmet came off.
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#698 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:12 AM

I think the Suh ones are comparable. Using your cleat as a weapon instead of the helmet. Some of the others listed are just fights where the helmet came off.


Using a helmet and hitting someone on the head is something that has never happened.

Nothing else comes close, especially on this environment of protecting the head.

He literally could have killed Rudolph.
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#699 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 09:58 AM

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#700 hallas

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:23 PM

Using a helmet and hitting someone on the head is something that has never happened.

Nothing else comes close, especially on this environment of protecting the head.

He literally could have killed Rudolph.

1: You can kill someone by stepping on their unhelmetted face at 330 lbs with cleats.
2: Antonio Smith swung his helmet at the head of Richie Incognito a few years back.




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