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O's Claim INF Hanser Alberto


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#21 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Unsurprisingly, you missed it. Contribute what?


Does this need to be explained to you? Are you really this dense?
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#22 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:02 PM

Interesting that you continue to mock something you fail to understand, meanwhile, the only 2 teams remaining in the Machado finals are both trying to do 'that'.


Lol

No one has ever said that you don’t try to get some kind of competitive advantage. I said for a while to get schoop locked hp in hopes it would matter for Manny.

That’s a lot different than your ridiculous ideas that other teams will give players away for trash just to make those relationships happen.

It’s a lot different than saying a team like the dodgers would give away Seager so that he can play with his brother. It’s just dumbs. No one will ever look to do that..ever.

But sure, if you can make some small moves to add friends, etc..and that could help you get a player, sure..:but that’s far from what you suggest and for you to act as if they are the same is hilarious.
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#23 dude

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:14 PM

That’s a lot different than your ridiculous ideas that other teams will give players away for trash just to make those relationships happen.

It’s a lot different than saying a team like the dodgers would give away Seager so that he can play with his brother. It’s just dumbs. No one will ever look to do that..ever.

But sure, if you can make some small moves to add friends, etc..and that could help you get a player, sure..:but that’s far from what you suggest and for you to act as if they are the same is hilarious.

 

I never suggested they give Seager away in the way you describe.

 

One of your common techniques to try and win some point is to mis-characterize things I've said in order to make the idea sound ridiculous.

 

Pretty easy to for me to defend my comments because I can point specifically to what I said and no-where was I suggesting they give him away so he can play with his brother.



#24 dude

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:24 PM

Does this need to be explained to you? Are you really this dense?

 

Yes, explain to me why a 26 year old fringe MLer who falls off the roster of another team would be interesting to a rebuilding club with no interest in competing.

 

Were you concerned the Orioles would have to go with only 24 players because they couldn't find another irrelevant player? 

...because Jace Peterson isn't good enough to be the utility infielder on this team?

 

Tell me why Hanser Alberto is "interesting".

 

At the level of the 40-man, we've gone from Breyvic Valera to Hanser Alberto.



#25 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

I never suggested they give Seager away in the way you describe.

One of your common techniques to try and win some point is to mis-characterize things I've said in order to make the idea sound ridiculous.

Pretty easy to for me to defend my comments because I can point specifically to what I said and no-where was I suggesting they give him away so he can play with his brother.

Your trades are giveaways. You don’t think they are but they are. You are the only one who doesn’t see it.
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#26 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:37 AM

Yes, explain to me why a 26 year old fringe MLer who falls off the roster of another team would be interesting to a rebuilding club with no interest in competing.

Were you concerned the Orioles would have to go with only 24 players because they couldn't find another irrelevant player?
...because Jace Peterson isn't good enough to be the utility infielder on this team?

Tell me why Hanser Alberto is "interesting".

At the level of the 40-man, we've gone from Breyvic Valera to Hanser Alberto.


Because there is a team in baseball that doesn’t carry a utility guy. Because there are times in your season where goes are hurt and you want to have some depth and try not to have much drop off in short spurts and if you are able to get players like that, who make no money, that’s a positive on your roster.

I honestly don’t feel you are this stupid about the game and roster construction to not understand such simple concepts.
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#27 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:08 PM

Because there is a team in baseball that doesn’t carry a utility guy. Because there are times in your season where goes are hurt and you want to have some depth and try not to have much drop off in short spurts and if you are able to get players like that, who make no money, that’s a positive on your roster.

I honestly don’t feel you are this stupid about the game and roster construction to not understand such simple concepts.

 

Ahhh...so you WERE concerned the Orioles couldn't find a utility player for a 100 loss team.  Yikes.

 

This isn't a question whether the Orioles need a utility player or not.  They will dress 25 players.

We can literally list 24 guys that could fill that role without thinking about it.

btw, the Orioles payroll is sitting around 65M right now so whether a utility player costs 600k or 800k or 1.2M, I'm guessing they can afford it.

 

The question is why is HANSER ALBERTO interesting.....or has a 'special skill' ....or better that a DD acquisition of another utility player.

 

You have Drew Jackson as a UTI player and you could literally get one (or more) in every Rule5 draft.  You still have Steve Wilkerson.  You just dumped Vielma.  You just swapped Valera for Alberto.  You signed Jace Peterson to a MiL deal.  Chris Owings would be a great option (excellent speed, plays both MI and OF positions).  Literally a dime a dozen type players.

 

Incredible that you (or anyone) place any kind of value on the name of the guy filling a Utility Role on a team you hope loses 100+ games.



#28 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

....for the record....

 

I have no issues with guys like Alberto or Austin Brice.  

 

If guys like this were on a previous 'watch' list in the Astros Org (or whatever) and they are just kind of names out there that may have a chance to be more than nothing (that's not mean, that's a baseball value assessment), that's fine.

 

If you have room, you can add them and try them in whatever way you want.

 

We'd also need to know their options status, which can get pretty limiting in what you can do (why guys like these get moved around).

 

Given their service history, I'd guess they are both out of options, but someone with more details would need to share that info.



#29 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:46 PM

Ahhh...so you WERE concerned the Orioles couldn't find a utility player for a 100 loss team. Yikes.

This isn't a question whether the Orioles need a utility player or not. They will dress 25 players.
We can literally list 24 guys that could fill that role without thinking about it.
btw, the Orioles payroll is sitting around 65M right now so whether a utility player costs 600k or 800k or 1.2M, I'm guessing they can afford it.

The question is why is HANSER ALBERTO interesting.....or has a 'special skill' ....or better that a DD acquisition of another utility player.

You have Drew Jackson as a UTI player and you could literally get one (or more) in every Rule5 draft. You still have Steve Wilkerson. You just dumped Vielma. You just swapped Valera for Alberto. You signed Jace Peterson to a MiL deal. Chris Owings would be a great option (excellent speed, plays both MI and OF positions). Literally a dime a dozen type players.

Incredible that you (or anyone) place any kind of value on the name of the guy filling a Utility Role on a team you hope loses 100+ games.

It’s it what he does now...it’s how he could help the team in the future, when it should be better. There is value in good uti players making little money.

It’s much better to have guys like that in those positions than spending 3-5 million a year for 15% more production.

Any of the “small roles” you can fill with guys making no money is all the more you can pour into the more important parts of the team.

And I agree that you can get these guys all the time...but that really doesn’t matter. What matters is finding the right guy and having the right guy(s) for this/these types of roles is a good thing.

I don’t think Alberto is any more unique than anyone else but he is the guy we have, therefore it will be interesting to see if he can fill that role and if he looks like he has a future. It’s not the most interesting thing in the world, certainly not as interesting and making sure two players wives get their husbands on the same team but hey, it’s what we have to discuss right now.
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#30 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:54 PM

I'll add this.  How shitty of a person could Max Schrock possibly be.

 

The Orioles have nothing going on in the infield.

 

1B:  Davis: we've talked about him enough, he needs to better and the contract says he gets the chance to work it out.

 

2B: Villar.  I like him OK and he's a nice player as a compliment on a good team (like DC or CLE), but he's nothing you build around and is ARB2 next year.  Do the Orioles have a legit 2B prospect anywhere in the minors?

 

SS: Martin.  We over draft Grenier and then added Martin as a Rule5 with basically the exact same profile.  Good glove, limited bat upside.  I don't have big issues with either, you just have to plan on them batting 9th.

 

3B: It's hard to put Nunez or Ruiz even in here, but I guess we watch them for now.  No real upside here, right?  Mountcsastle is projectable, but it feels like his whole ranking is centered on his bat and the glove is a question.

 

Orioles 40 includes guys like Hanser Alberto, Steve Wilkerson, Drew Jackson and they've filtered through a number of other similar looking players...but nobody has any real projection beyond utility player, right?

 

They added Carmona (SS) from the Schoop trade and Encarnacion (3B) from the Braves who seem like decent prospects, just waaaaaay down the road.  Adam Hall?  Rylan Bannon?

 

We had a free shot at the Cardinals #11 prospect with nearly nothing going on at 2B at the ML or MiL level and we passed.  I'm still amazed by that.  He must have some serious baggage.



#31 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

I'll add this.  How shitty of a person could Max Schrock possibly be.

 

.

You keep bringing this guy up. He has no power and little to no plate discipline.  Apparently isn't a particularly good defender who can only play second base capably. He's 5'8" and 173 pounds. It looks like he has decent sped but nothing special and has been a mediocre base stealer, particularly at the advanced levels. He put up a 627 OPS in extensive play in the PCL last year where he hit 4 HRS in 457. PA's and posted  a sub 300 OBP. So, what the hell is so special about Max Schrock? He ha shown something of a hit tool, but looks like a guy with severe limitations and limited utility. 



#32 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:32 PM

You keep bringing this guy up. He has no power and little to no plate discipline. Apparently isn't a particularly good defender who can only play second base capably. He's 5'8" and 173 pounds. It looks like he has decent sped but nothing special and has been a mediocre base stealer, particularly at the advanced levels. He put up a 627 OPS in extensive play in the PCL last year where he hit 4 HRS in 457. PA's and posted a sub 300 OBP. So, what the hell is so special about Max Schrock? He ha shown something of a hit tool, but looks like a guy with severe limitations and limited utility.


This would be ok if he was in the upper levels at age 20 or 21. But he’s 24(played last year at 23).

Everyone passed on him in the rule 5.
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#33 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:02 PM

You keep bringing this guy up. He has no power and little to no plate discipline.  Apparently isn't a particularly good defender who can only play second base capably. He's 5'8" and 173 pounds. It looks like he has decent sped but nothing special and has been a mediocre base stealer, particularly at the advanced levels. He put up a 627 OPS in extensive play in the PCL last year where he hit 4 HRS in 457. PA's and posted  a sub 300 OBP. So, what the hell is so special about Max Schrock? He ha shown something of a hit tool, but looks like a guy with severe limitations and limited utility. 

 

I'm no professional scout....so I treat the broader publicly available scouting information to frame a prospect discussion.

 

Professionals rank Schrock as the Cardinals #11 (AAA) prospect (he was higher last year).  The Cardinals system has been better than the Orioles, but if the Orioles made Akin (#11, AA) or McKenna (#12, A-AA) available under Rule 5 conditions, I feel confident the Orioles lose both of them. 

 

In the context of this discussion, you think Hanser Alberto has some special skill but you push back on a guy that has infinitely more opportunity to build value for a team with literally no projectable 2B action.

 

You certainly did a nice job of cherry picking stats that support for your flawed position.  I mean lets ignore that Alberto has 1000 PAs over 4 seasons in the PCL and was 25 there last year.



#34 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:11 PM

Everyone passed on him in the rule 5.

 

Hey, I agree.  It's not like we're talking about some random MiL fodder.  The guy is actually a ranked prospect and would likely be our highest ranked IF prospect after Mountcastle.

 

Tells me there's some other baggage on the guy out there that is available inside the Baseball community, but not publicly.  He's got a DV charge, he's popped hot on substance, he's a major clubhouse issue....it's not like there aren't a bunch of teams that care nothing about competing and could just take a look for free. He's basically a Cardinals Top10 prospect and 30 teams (including the Cardinals who left him unprotected) don't care? 



#35 Mackus

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:18 PM

In the context of this discussion, you think Hanser Alberto has some special skill but you push back on a guy that has infinitely more opportunity to build value for a team with literally no projectable 2B action.

dude you have specifically mentioned the "special skill" comment multiple times, but I think you are misinterpreting what CA said.

He was sarcastically remarking on how "special" it must be to only have a 346 OBP despite the high average. The minute .016 difference between OBP and AVG is the "serious skill".

#36 russsnyder

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:12 PM

Hey, I agree. It's not like we're talking about some random MiL fodder. The guy is actually a ranked prospect and would likely be our highest ranked IF prospect after Mountcastle.

Tells me there's some other baggage on the guy out there that is available inside the Baseball community, but not publicly. He's got a DV charge, he's popped hot on substance, he's a major clubhouse issue....it's not like there aren't a bunch of teams that care nothing about competing and could just take a look for free. He's basically a Cardinals Top10 prospect and 30 teams (including the Cardinals who left him unprotected) don't care?

I think that you reaching for some ominous reason why this guy was not picked in the rule 5. Couldn't it be as something as simple as this guy does a not have a superior tool? As CA pointed out, he did not have an outstanding offensive season in the PCL. His primary position is second and unlike the rule 5 guys the Orioles picked up he is not a shortstop.

#37 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:23 PM

I think that you reaching for some ominous reason why this guy was not picked in the rule 5. Couldn't it be as something as simple as this guy does a not have a superior tool? As CA pointed out, he did not have an outstanding offensive season in the PCL. His primary position is second and unlike the rule 5 guys the Orioles picked up he is not a shortstop.


Hes not wrong that if you are ranked relatively high in a good system and that player is available for free, that it is head scratching why no one grabbed him, especially a going no where team like the Os.

But it could be that he is overrated...has off field stuff, etc...lots of reasons. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worth mentioning in conversation.
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#38 russsnyder

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:37 PM

Hes not wrong that if you are ranked relatively high in a good system and that player is available for free, that it is head scratching why no one grabbed him, especially a going no where team like the Os.

But it could be that he is overrated...has off field stuff, etc...lots of reasons. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worth mentioning in conversation.

I never said he was wrong for wondering why the guy was not picked.

I do think that it is irresponsible to suggest that there is an off field issue ( particularly suggesting a DV issue)that may have caused teams to pass on the guy without any evidence to back it up.

He had a disappointing season with the bat in triple A, is not real versatile, and is getting on in years for a prospect. Not a real headscratcher why other guys were more appealing.

#39 dude

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 05:39 PM

dude you have specifically mentioned the "special skill" comment multiple times, but I think you are misinterpreting what CA said.

He was sarcastically remarking on how "special" it must be to only have a 346 OBP despite the high average. The minute .016 difference between OBP and AVG is the "serious skill".

 

I don't know.  Seemed like serious comment.  Chris. in the next post. seemed to take it as a serious comment too.



#40 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 08:40 PM

I don't know.  Seemed like serious comment.  Chris. in the next post. seemed to take it as a serious comment too.

It was an obvious jab at his lack of plate discipline. I'm guessing everyone got it but you. But seriously, didn't my "Hanser and Greter "  comment cue you in about as to how I feel about him? You responded to it and stated this is  the tone you expected. I suspect Hanser Alberto is seen as nothing more than a no cost upgrade over Valera (or whatever his name was). It's like upgrading to a cheeseburger for the same price as a hamburger. If you like cheese, might as well get the cheeseburger for the same price. Like you said, maybe options play into it. Like Trea said, wouldn't surprise me if Alberto is DFA'd in a couple weeks (along with some others like Wilkerson). I suspect the Orioles are looking for a vert SS and are just not going to throw Martin in the fire on day 1. Alberto may provide some insurance and leverage for Iglesias or Mercer (whatever). Maybe he sticks.  

 

It's a fair argument that Schrock is better than Alberto or Valers (whatever). Except they are not the same. One is a rule 5 pick and we already have 2 rule 5 IF's. Schrok appears pretty limited in his ability in his skillset and assume a utility role as compared to Alberto. Again, I thin they want some veteranosity to ease Martin in. So they need a better FIT (that's always a good buzzword for you). 

 

I don't know why the info/stats I presented about Shcrokc is "flawed". I literally read them off baseball reference.com. You didn't argue anything as to why they are "flawed" other than state he's the Cardinals 11th ranked prospect. I'm not a scout either, but what do you think is so good about him. You've brought him up 3-4 times now and I didn't respond before, but since you've raised the bar to we (and every other team) are stupid for not taking him in  the rule 5 draft, what do you think is so great about him and what did I state that is "flawed". You must have read some scouting reports on him to keep bring him up and going up anther level of disgusted for not taking him. What so good about him that we had to add him as a rule 5 pick when we already have 2 rule 5 IF's?  


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