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BSL: Selection of Richie Martin Highlights Rule 5 Draft for Orioles


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#41 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:27 PM

IMO, it was very mixed results for DD with his dumpster diving.  Great through 2014 then no good afterward.  Carrying a rule 5 guy every year basically meant we were playing with 24.  And carrying 3 last year was probably the dumbest thing DD ever did.  That one year he tried to carry Jason Garcia.  Completely messed up the bullpen as Buck had to hide the guy until they came up with a mystery injury like they always do.  What a joke.


Carrying a rule 5 guy who isn’t that good is a lot different than participating in the rule 5.
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#42 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:28 PM

Whether it’s rule 5, taking guys off of waivers who have been discarded, signing MiL FAs.

It’s all the same. It’s ways of finding cheap talent and hoping it works. Every team absolutely does this.

The good teams with stacked 40 man rosters don't mess with these type of dregs.  They absolutely don't.



#43 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:31 PM

Carrying a rule 5 guy who isn’t that good is a lot different than participating in the rule 5.

Ha, but that's the point.  DD carried a rule 5 guy every year that wasn't that good!   That's where you get the results.  And they stunk. And how about that triple play last year???



#44 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:35 PM


I get the point, but disagree.  Due to keeping those guys, they looked to keep others with options.  The bullpen typically performed well in the Duquette / Buck era in-part because they utilized those options, and kept the guys fresh... often times they were essentially working with 26 man roster. 

That said, I agree with the idea that at some point those guys can't be hidden. They have to play.   Definitely not an issue with Martin though.

Yes Martin is good for a rebuild.  But 2015 thru 2018 DD and Buck were trying to win.  The dumpster diving was a disaster those years.  Especially the rule 5 guys.  



#45 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:36 PM

The good teams with stacked 40 man rosters don't mess with these type of dregs.  They absolutely don't.


You are 100% wrong.
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#46 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:43 PM

You are 100% wrong.

What good teams took a selection this year in the rule 5 MLB phase??   Or made a waiver claim on a fringe guy??  If they did it couldn't be very many.  And that was the premise.  All teams make these kind of dumpster moves.  That is what you jumped in on .  

Teams with loaded 40 man rosters don't mess with these dregs.  Why would they. The guys they already have are way better. That's why they are good teams and then you have teams like the Orioles.  

 

I would agree all teams make dumpster moves for minor league depth outside the 40 man.  But I'm talking about moves where the dumpster dive has to be added to the 40 man.



#47 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:22 PM

What good teams took a selection this year in the rule 5 MLB phase??   Or made a waiver claim on a fringe guy??  If they did it couldn't be very many.  And that was the premise.  All teams make these kind of dumpster moves.  That is what you jumped in on .  
Teams with loaded 40 man rosters don't mess with these dregs.  Why would they. The guys they already have are way better. That's why they are good teams and then you have teams like the Orioles.  
 
I would agree all teams make dumpster moves for minor league depth outside the 40 man.  But I'm talking about moves where the dumpster dive has to be added to the 40 man.


Just a few weeks ago, the Yankees claimed Parker Bridwell off waivers and put him on their 40 man
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#48 DJ MC

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:24 PM

What good teams took a selection this year in the rule 5 MLB phase??   Or made a waiver claim on a fringe guy??  If they did it couldn't be very many.  And that was the premise.  All teams make these kind of dumpster moves.  That is what you jumped in on .  

Teams with loaded 40 man rosters don't mess with these dregs.  Why would they. The guys they already have are way better. That's why they are good teams and then you have teams like the Orioles.  

 

I would agree all teams make dumpster moves for minor league depth outside the 40 man.  But I'm talking about moves where the dumpster dive has to be added to the 40 man.

 

Last year the Braves, Mariners, Angels and Astros made picks. In 2016, the Tigers, Indians, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox. In 2015, the Cardinals, Blue Jays, and Angels (twice!).

 

Should I keep going?


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#49 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:26 PM

Just a few weeks ago, the Yankees claimed Parker Bridwell off waivers and put him on their 40 man

Ok you found one.  It was supposed to be all teams.  Like I said its few and far between.  And the rule 5 is a zero for good teams.  



#50 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:28 PM

Ok you found one.  It was supposed to be all teams.  Like I said its few and far between.  And the rule 5 is a zero for good teams.  


I only looked for one...and proved that you were wrong. Good teams do it..and they do it every year.

They may not participate in the rule 5 every year but they do make “dumpster dive” moves.

The Os have done well with those moves over the years too.

I suppose you think it’s smarter to spend 4-7M on the Jay Payton’s of the world?
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#51 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:32 PM

Last year the Braves, Mariners, Angels and Astros made picks. In 2016, the Tigers, Indians, Blue Jays, Rangers and Red Sox. In 2015, the Cardinals, Blue Jays, and Angels (twice!).

 

Should I keep going?

 

Sure keep going .   Very small number.  And were most of these teams any good when they made their picks??  I know the Stros were.  But the Angels haven't been good forever. Tigers and Rangers???  Wonder how many of these guys stuck.  For the O's it was every year. So, big deal there were a couple good teams who made picks over a 4 year period.  That's not all or most which is what was spouted.  Keep looking .



#52 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:35 PM

The good teams with stacked 40 man rosters don't mess with these type of dregs. They absolutely don't.

Just re-quoting this.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

We could keep going if we wanted but really, what’s the point?
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#53 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:40 PM

I only looked for one...and proved that you were wrong. Good teams do it..and they do it every year.

They may not participate in the rule 5 every year but they do make “dumpster dive” moves.

The Os have done well with those moves over the years too.

I suppose you think it’s smarter to spend 4-7M on the Jay Payton’s of the world?

 

The premise was all teams do it.  And they all don't do it  from year to year if they are good.  Oh you can find your Parker Bridwell example, but most of the playoff teams from last year didn't  do any rule 5 or waiver claims.   The Orioles did it even when they were "good" so there is that exception.  I'll give you that one on DD.  And post 2014 it was a disaster.  So the bottom line to move the discussion along, I don't see Elias doing the DD dumpster diving in a couple years after the talent base is built up.  There will not be a parade of onerule 5 guy every year on the roster when he has this team competitive.  You can bank on that.



#54 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:41 PM

Just re-quoting this.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

We could keep going if we wanted but really, what’s the point?

 

Go ahead and post the original premise you backed.  All teams do the dumpster diving.  You are just wrong on that.  Go ahead and post the rule 5 pick or waiver claim by all the winning teams from last year for the 40 man. This off season.  



#55 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:45 PM

Go ahead and post the original premise you backed.  All teams do the dumpster diving.  You are just wrong on that.  !00% wrong. 


All teams absolutely do it. It’s a cheap way of getting talent.

There are various ways of doing it. The rule 5 is one of those ways.
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#56 russsnyder

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:46 PM


I get the point, but disagree. Due to keeping those guys, they looked to keep others with options. The bullpen typically performed well in the Duquette / Buck era in-part because they utilized those options, and kept the guys fresh... often times they were essentially working with 26 man roster.

That said, I agree with the idea that at some point those guys can't be hidden. They have to play. Definitely not an issue with Martin though.


I agree that the optionable relievers in the DD/Buck era was similar to carrying 26 players. However, the shuttle was handcuffed by having two Rule 5 pitchers to start the season last year.i know it did not last long because Martin was jettisoned fairly quickly. Anytime the Orioles carried a Rule 5 pitcher they seemed to DL him at some point to give the roster flexibility. Martin obviously will not need to be hidden. I am hoping that he can play regularly. If not, he will get ample time in the utility IF role.

#57 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:47 PM

The BJs selected Biagini in the rule 5 prior to 2016...and he pitched 70 innings of 3 ERA ball and was a fixture for them that year, including pitching in the playoffs.
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#58 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:47 PM

Just re-quoting this.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

We could keep going if we wanted but really, what’s the point?

 

Yeah whats the point. you are wrong again as usual.  



#59 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:49 PM

The BJs selected Biagini in the rule 5 prior to 2016...and he pitched 70 innings of 3 ERA ball and was a fixture for them that year, including pitching in the playoffs.

The premise is all teams.  Keep cherry picking.  Every year there are good teams that are stacked on the 40 man that don't mess with the rule 5 or the waiver claim.  Go back and look at my original post.  It was specifically on rule 5 and waiver claims.  Keep moving the goal post if you want.  You are wrong.



#60 DJ MC

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:52 PM

And were most of these teams any good when they made their picks??

 

Yes :) Hence why I chose them specifically instead of just making an absolute statement and not being willing to back it up when questioned.


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