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BSL: Selection of Richie Martin Highlights Rule 5 Draft for Orioles


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#21 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:37 AM

Statistically (career Fld%) The Wizard is #21.  Actually discussed the other morning on MLB Radio.  Oddly, Tulo was actually at the top for a while and has dropped to #3 in recent years.

 

Career Fielding % at SS

 

If you want the #4 guy All-Time, Freddy Galvis is readily available too.

 

LOL, fielding percentage.  Is it 1982?


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#22 Mackus

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:38 AM

Dude the idea that any high caliber defender in college can step right in to an MLB lineup and it makes no difference compared to an actual MLB caliber player being there is absolutely without merit.
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#23 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:42 AM

Richie Martin going first in the Rule 5 was the first time in awhile where it was clear that one player was head and shoulders higher than the rest. Still weird that the A's couldn't find a way to protect him. good defender, good speed, had a breakout year in AA, former 1st rd pk



#24 Dr. FLK

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:45 AM

Why do I feel like this Richie Martin thing is a setup?  I mean - everyone says the same thing: solid player, great acquisition, surprising the A's made him available.  This is the Orioles we're talking about.  They have to end up looking like fools.  Like...when do we find out that they took the wrong Richie Martin?  See what Orioles-fandom has done to me...



#25 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:56 AM

Dude the idea that any high caliber defender in college can step right in to an MLB lineup and it makes no difference compared to an actual MLB caliber player being there is absolutely without merit.

 

We should agree that defense is easiest and most reliable tool to predict, right? 

Catchers are different (so we don't move the goal posts)



#26 weird-O

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:09 AM

Hopefully that's just a comment intended to be contrary for entertainment purposes and not serious.

I asked because, when viewed through the lens that the team can make this addition and still compete, I don't see any difference between this move, and DD's rule 5 additions. Except that DD was universally slammed for adding rule 5 players while also trying to make the post season.  


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#27 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:15 AM

Martin represents someone with upside, someone who could be a regular at a tough position.

 

Much rather roll with him and see if he develops vs signing Iglesias, a guy you know won't hit.  Not to mention, you have Iglesias for a year compared to a potential of 6 years (or more) with Martin. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

As for Granier vs Martin.  So what if they are the same player?  If they both develop. you have a trade chip or one can move to second.  If one develops, you have insurance.  If neither develops, no big deal. 

 

If Martin doesn't show a big difference with the bat this year, he may not get picked.  Granier needs to show something with that bat.  You don't just bring him up because you think he can field.  He still needs to develop and while I think the term "rushing" is stupid and most don't understand how to properly use it, giving a very flawed player almost zero MiL time to develop is just dumb.

 

Now, if Granier is doing very well with the bat this year and Martin isn't the answer, I do consider Granier as an option later on this year or, more than likely (for service time reasons), next season.  

 

But right now?  You take the guy that is obviously the best player available, plug him in and see if he is a late bloomer.  Signing Iglesias and playing him over this kid is a dumb move with zero merit.


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#28 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:24 AM

MLB Pipeline placed Drew Jackson at #24 on our list, FYI. 


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#29 McNulty

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:24 AM

They still need some Janish type guy in AAA just in case.  But for sure, play the kid.


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#30 DJ MC

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:43 AM

Yeah, but Ozzie Smith has got to be in his 60's by now.

 

I was gonna go with, "Yeah, but Mark Belanger is also dead, last time I checked," but this works, too.


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#31 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 11:03 AM

They still need some Janish type guy in AAA just in case.  But for sure, play the kid.

They may still get Iglesias.  Not sure how many teams will be knocking down the door to get him.


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#32 Mackus

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 04:14 PM

We should agree that defense is easiest and most reliable tool to predict, right?

Agreed.

Still, a slick fielding college SS is almost never ready to play right away. Yet alone one with a mediocre at best bat for the college level (and bad results in limited time against younger competition in the Sally league).

You can get away with a 600 OPS at SS if you have to. My guess is Grenier would be more like 450 at this point. No amount of defense makes that acceptable.

#33 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 05:38 PM

I like the move, but picking up the 2 rule 5 guys (one with s a trade for slot money) and claiming Ruiz on waivers are the exact kind of moves Dumpster Dan would of made. I'm telling you exactly. The only difference is Dumpster Dan never had the first pick in rule 5. Just because its Elias and not DD doesn't make it great.


Every GM makes these kinds of moves. That wasn’t the problem with DD. And we’re in a much different situation now.

Obviously it’s baby steps but nothing has shaken my confidence in the new regime in its first month, not even close.
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#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 05:40 PM

Every GM makes these kinds of moves. That wasn’t the problem with DD. And we’re in a much different situation now.

Obviously it’s baby steps but nothing has shaken my confidence in the new regime in its first month, not even close.

Some understand this...most don't.  Well said.


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#35 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 05:46 PM

Utilizing Rule 5 and other instances of 'dumpster diving' was a positive of Duquette not a negative. Looking for possible production from all available sources is what you should be doing.

The issue (if one existed) was not obtaining Rule 5s or others off the scrap heap...it was not also augmenting the core with enough external difference makers. (Made worse with their own inability to develop enough internally.)

Regarding Elias and now...the Orioles didn't win 50 games last year. Giving Martin the opportunity to play and be evaluated over a season is exactly what should be done over course of a year where you can't contend. Maybe he becomes long term option under long term team control...maybe he implodes. Either way worthwhile.
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#36 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:12 PM

Every GM makes these kinds of moves. That wasn’t the problem with DD. And we’re in a much different situation now.

Obviously it’s baby steps but nothing has shaken my confidence in the new regime in its first month, not even close.

No they don't.  Only 13 teams made selections in the rule 5 major league phase.  And its the bottom teams in baseball that are looking to upgrade their thin talent base with a hail mary.  And only the bottom feeders are making waiver claims for the likes of guys like Ruiz.  Hey there is nothing wrong with it in our position today.   



#37 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:14 PM

Some understand this...most don't.  Well said.

 

Obviously you don't understand good teams usually don't mess with the rule 5 dumpster dive.  Only the bottom feeders usually do.  



#38 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:23 PM

Utilizing Rule 5 and other instances of 'dumpster diving' was a positive of Duquette not a negative. Looking for possible production from all available sources is what you should be doing.

The issue (if one existed) was not obtaining Rule 5s or others off the scrap heap...it was not also augmenting the core with enough external difference makers. (Made worse with their own inability to develop enough internally.)

Regarding Elias and now...the Orioles didn't win 50 games last year. Giving Martin the opportunity to play and be evaluated over a season is exactly what should be done over course of a year where you can't contend. Maybe he becomes long term option under long term team control...maybe he implodes. Either way worthwhile.

 

IMO, it was very mixed results for DD with his dumpster diving.  Great through 2014 then no good afterward.  Carrying a rule 5 guy every year basically meant we were playing with 24.  And carrying 3 last year was probably the dumbest thing DD ever did.  That one year he tried to carry Jason Garcia.  Completely messed up the bullpen as Buck had to hide the guy until they came up with a mystery injury like they always do.  What a joke.



#39 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:25 PM

Obviously you don't understand good teams usually don't mess with the rule 5 dumpster dive.  Only the bottom feeders usually do.  


Whether it’s rule 5, taking guys off of waivers who have been discarded, signing MiL FAs.

It’s all the same. It’s ways of finding cheap talent and hoping it works. Every team absolutely does this.
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#40 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:27 PM

IMO, it was very mixed results for DD with his dumpster diving.  Great through 2014 then no good afterward.  Carrying a rule 5 guy every year basically meant we were playing with 24.  And carrying 3 last year was probably the dumbest thing DD ever did.  That one year he tried to carry Jason Garcia.  Completely messed up the bullpen as Buck had to hide the guy until they came up with a mystery injury like they always do.  What a joke.


I get the point, but disagree.  Due to keeping those guys, they looked to keep others with options.  The bullpen typically performed well in the Duquette / Buck era in-part because they utilized those options, and kept the guys fresh... often times they were essentially working with 26 man roster. 

That said, I agree with the idea that at some point those guys can't be hidden. They have to play.   Definitely not an issue with Martin though.






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