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BSL: Selection of Richie Martin Highlights Rule 5 Draft for Orioles


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#1 BSLZachSpedden

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 07:19 PM

The major league phase of Thursday’s Rule 5 draft began with the Baltimore Orioles selecting infielder Richie Martin from the Oakland A’s. Martin’s selection gives him the opportunity to make the Opening Day roster, while providing the Orioles with an intriguing addition to their thin middle-infield depth. 

 

https://www.baltimor...-draft-orioles/


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#2 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:01 PM

He's already slotted in at #13 on the Orioles prospect list from MLB pipeline. 


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#3 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:39 PM

He's already slotted in at #13 on the Orioles prospect list from MLB pipeline. 

Some people may make jokes about this but the Orioles don't have a bad group of players in that 9-18 range.  Getting into that group immediately is nice to see.  


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#4 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:49 PM

Wasn't Martin ranked pretty high in the A's system? I thought I read 12, but maybe I'm wrong. 



#5 BaltBird 24

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:50 PM

Dumpster diving Mike Elias!

#6 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:31 PM

Some people may make jokes about this but the Orioles don't have a bad group of players in that 9-18 range.  Getting into that group immediately is nice to see.  

Oh, absolutely. I was refreshing the page most of the day in hopes that he would crack that top 15 range. 


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#7 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:31 PM

Wasn't Martin ranked pretty high in the A's system? I thought I read 12, but maybe I'm wrong. 

That's exactly where he was when I checked their list as soon as we drafted him. 


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#8 tennOsfan

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:27 AM

I don't see this as a dumpster dive. Reports I've read say he's an above-average fielding shortstop. If he can hit his weight, he's a solid low-cost player for us as he attempts to prove he was worthy of a first-round pick. He certainly made good contact last season in the Texas League.



#9 Crouseman

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 06:46 AM

I don't see this as a dumpster dive. Reports I've read say he's an above-average fielding shortstop. If he can hit his weight, he's a solid low-cost player for us as he attempts to prove he was worthy of a first-round pick. He certainly made good contact last season in the Texas League.

I like the move,  but picking up the 2 rule 5 guys (one with s a trade for slot money) and claiming Ruiz on waivers are the exact kind of moves Dumpster Dan would of made.  I'm telling you exactly.  The only difference is Dumpster Dan never had the first pick in rule 5. Just because its Elias and not DD doesn't make it great. 



#10 weird-O

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:50 AM

Dumpster diving Mike Elias!

:D


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#11 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 08:41 AM

I don't have any issues with selecting Richie Martin or adding Drew Jackson.

 

....but I don't see any difference between Richie Martin and Cadyn Grenier...

...or any difference between Drew Jackson and recently released Chris Owings.

 

The top fielding SS of All Time is available as a FA for a likely modest cost.

 

Spending your time developing role players or utility players is the opposite of what makes a difference when winning is more important.

 

Role players and utility players are available whenever you want them....through FA, trade, Rule5 or modest picks in the draft.



#12 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 08:45 AM

You don't see any difference between Martin having nearly 1,400 professional ab's... ending '18 having posted an .807 OPS in 453 ab's in the Texas League... and Grenier who had 162 ab's last year in the South Atlantic?

 

Their ultimate ceilings might be very similar... but there is a difference in who they currently are.



#13 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 08:56 AM

Keep in mind, too, that with the Orioles in the early stages of a large rebuilding project, the club can afford to be patient with players as they develop in the majors.

I disagree with the concept of this statement.

 

For some reason, and I have no idea why, there's a general belief out there that you can't develop players on the ML if you are trying to win.

 

If the Orioles were trying to win this year and you wanted a controllable defensive option at SS and let him bat 9th and see what happens...there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting Richie Martin out there.

 

You can buffer that risk with another utility player or some AAA depth (or just go get someone else if it's not working out) but it seems silly to pretend you can't integrate young players into your roster even if your trying to win....because you can.

 

You have to be smart about it. 

You probably shouldn't do it with the whole roster if you're serious about winning. 

You have to have a plan. 

You need to understand how those guys fit and create situations that maximize their opportunity to contributing success.



#14 weird-O

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:06 AM

I disagree with the concept of this statement.

 

For some reason, and I have no idea why, there's a general belief out there that you can't develop players on the ML if you are trying to win.

 

If the Orioles were trying to win this year and you wanted a controllable defensive option at SS and let him bat 9th and see what happens...there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting Richie Martin out there.

 

You can buffer that risk with another utility player or some AAA depth (or just go get someone else if it's not working out) but it seems silly to pretend you can't integrate young players into your roster even if your trying to win....because you can.

 

You have to be smart about it. 

You probably shouldn't do it with the whole roster if you're serious about winning. 

You have to have a plan. 

You need to understand how those guys fit and create situations that maximize their opportunity to contributing success.

I take it you were a supporter of DD's annual rule 5 additions, since it's the same thing. He was keeping young, developing players on the roster while trying to compete.  


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#15 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:10 AM

You don't see any difference between Martin having nearly 1,400 professional ab's... ending '18 having posted an .807 OPS in 453 ab's in the Texas League... and Grenier who had 162 ab's last year in the South Atlantic?

 

Their ultimate ceilings might be very similar... but there is a difference in who they currently are.

 

There's no difference in what they mean to this team.

 

If you want a defensive SS with a modest bat, either player or Jose Iglesias can get you there. 

 

You don't have any of those guys because you are intrigued by their offensive potential. 

You get them because they can pick the ball and help out your pitching staff.  Ground balls.  Pitch to contact. 

 

There's absolutely no reason to wait for years on Grenier.  He was an experienced college SS on Nationally competitive team and he had the questionable bat when you drafted him.  So if you take him with your second pick and you don't plan to use him for exactly what he is, then it's a really stupid pick.

 

If Cadyn Grenier was the Orioles 2019 Opening Day SS, it makes exactly the same difference as playing Richie Martin. 

Now, in 2020 and in 2025.

 

Elias didn't draft Grenier so maybe he has a very different view of him than the previous regime than a guy like Martin and that's fine.  

 

...but Martin isn't a bridge to Grenier.  You can use either in any year you want for what they are. 

You can keep them as long as you like because it's unlikely they have profiles that make them difficult to keep.

 

If Martin goes Brandon Crawford on you, that's great, but that should hardly be the expectation.



#16 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:13 AM

I take it you were a supporter of DD's annual rule 5 additions, since it's the same thing. He was keeping young, developing players on the roster while trying to compete.  

 

Hopefully that's just a comment intended to be contrary for entertainment purposes and not serious.



#17 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:17 AM

The top fielding SS of All Time is available as a FA for a likely modest cost.

 

Yeah, but Ozzie Smith has got to be in his 60's by now.



#18 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:21 AM

...can I just add that Max Schrock must be a real dick.

 

He seemed like the easiest pick in the Rule5.  He's basically been a back end top10 guy in the Cardinals system.  Played all last year at AAA.  Left handed bat that has produced a good OBP (MiL: .352) with some pop.  He's 24 with no-where to play in STL (limited to 2B) and there are teams out there that need 2B help.

 

Basically he's a LHed 2B bat with good minor league numbers and you can take a #11 prospect from STL for free.

 

...and every team passed on him.  There has to be something else there (clubhouse, drug suspension coming, DV investigation, something).

 

The Orioles could have gotten him with a second Rule5 pick and passed.  Yikes.



#19 dude

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:26 AM

Yeah, but Ozzie Smith has got to be in his 60's by now.

 

Statistically (career Fld%) The Wizard is #21.  Actually discussed the other morning on MLB Radio.  Oddly, Tulo was actually at the top for a while and has dropped to #3 in recent years.

 

Career Fielding % at SS

 

If you want the #4 guy All-Time, Freddy Galvis is readily available too.



#20 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:36 AM

There's nothing there I agree with. 

I'm all for moving players quickly, and acknowledging what they are as players and understanding what value they provide...  but when Grenier's bat was questionable before his selection; you don't insert him into the Majors immediately.  Let him earn his way to AA, without being overwhelmed with the bat, and then we can talk about him being a possible option for the O's. 

 

Without selecting Martin, Iglesias would have been a fine option for a year. Giving the team a reliable glove, to the benefit of the pitching staff, including options you'll be trying to develop. 

 

With Martin, you are better off giving Martin the opportunity to grab the position vs. signing Iglesias. If Martin proves to be reliable with the glove, you've gained something. Team control, cheap, and could presumably develop further.  It's a better utilization of time in a year you can't contend. And if he doesn't seize the opportunity you've lost nothing, even if Iglesias would have been the better player in '19.


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