Photo

BSL: The case for and against the Ravens firing John Harbaugh


  • Please log in to reply
142 replies to this topic

#1 BSLJasonBHirschhorn

BSLJasonBHirschhorn

    Ravens Analyst

  • Members
  • 81 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 02:07 PM

The case for and against the Ravens firing John Harbaugh:

 

https://www.baltimor...-john-harbaugh/


  • BSLChrisStoner likes this

Jason B. Hirschhorn is an award-winning sports journalist and Pro Football Writers of America member. He has bylines at NFL.com, SB Nation, Sports on Earth, and other outlets. He also serves as the senior reporter and editor for Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog. Follow him on Twitter: @by_JBH


#2 jamesdean

jamesdean

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 784 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:21 PM

Just like with Buck Showalter, I can't see any case to keep Harbaugh.  He's had a decent run as a coach but after a decade, I think his program is gotten beyond stale.  He's hit his ceiling as an NFL coach and after he's gone, I have no doubt some college will scoop him up and he'll go down the same road as his brother. 


  • BSLMikeRandall and cprenegade like this

#3 birdwatcher55

birdwatcher55

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,402 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:39 PM

A good fit for Terps?

#4 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,313 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

He will get another NFL job within weeks of being fired. He won't have to be unemployed or go to college unless he prefers it.
  • bmore_ken and cprenegade like this

#5 jamesdean

jamesdean

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 784 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:29 PM

He will get another NFL job within weeks of being fired. He won't have to be unemployed or go to college unless he prefers it.

I do think he will prefer it.  His brother will no doubt describe the virtues of going down that road. 



#6 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,313 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 08:09 PM


I do think he will prefer it. His brother will no doubt describe the virtues of going down that road.

Certainly possible. Jim is at a place that adores him because he's an alum, though. John wouldn't have that (unless he took a really surprising job), so maybe not the exact same reverence.

#7 85Knight

85Knight
  • Members
  • 399 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 10:22 PM

He will get another NFL job within weeks of being fired. He won't have to be unemployed or go to college unless he prefers it.


That's the same thing they said about Billick when he got fired and their careers have taken similar paths.

#8 cprenegade

cprenegade

    Rookie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 707 posts

Posted 10 November 2018 - 10:50 PM

He will get another NFL job within weeks of being fired. He won't have to be unemployed or go to college unless he prefers it.

 

I agree.  Harbaugh isn't a bad coach.  His positives include motivation, attention to details, strong and organized practices.  The downside is some of his in game decisions and clock management.  I think too much of the blame goes on Harbaugh.  I always debated with people in the 2000's who said Ozzy Newsome and the Ravens FO were the best in football.  Give them credit for that first draft of Ogden and Ray, but I said the true test of Newsome and the FO would come only after Ray Lewis retired.  A lot of that great defensive talent that the Ravens drafted was only great because of what Ray brought to the team.  That was proven when several of them got big paydays from other teams and were big busts.  On offense they have struggled since their existence to put together any kind of consistency from year to year.  Since Ray retired the Ravens have been a .500 organization and have had a few whiffs in the draft.  It's not all Harbaugh's fault....the FO has been less than stellar since the SB win.  Wouldn't it be funny to see Jacksonville fire their coach and hire Harbaugh, only to pick up Flacco in Free agency!



#9 BSLMikeRandall

BSLMikeRandall

    Sr. Ravens Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,322 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 09:11 AM

That's the same thing they said about Billick when he got fired and their careers have taken similar paths.

Depends on how bad Harbaugh wants to stay in the league. Billick was content raising his family here in MD, and he famously often says that "teams want young and cheap, and I'm neither." If Harbaugh wants to be a head coach, I'm sure the opportunity will be out there for him. What the price will be and how much Harbaugh values it over other options is only something Harbaugh and probably his immediate family knows.

 

Personally, I think he'd be a great fit in college. He's a great motivator of young players. As bad as the Ravens have been lately, they do get some play out of the 45th-46th, 52nd-53rd guys on the roster. Dark horses from training camp end up on the team, deservedly so, and I think Harbaugh has a lot to do with that. Though veterans that are past that five year mark, onto their next contract, the rhetoric probably falls on deaf ears, IMO. 


@BSLMikeRandall

#10 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 112,330 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 04:24 PM

CBS Sports: Ravens, John Harbaugh headed to a mutual parting of ways; in-season firing not discussed
https://www.cbssport...-not-discussed/



#11 Ravens2006

Ravens2006
  • Members
  • 275 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 04:51 PM

I'd be curious to know their records with second half, two score leads. I feel like I recall Billick had a tremendous won-loss record in that category. Harbaugh I'm not sure, but I definitely feel like it's worse, maybe much worse, with some glaring playoff games lost in that scenario too...

John's management of game situation / momentum strikes me as a constant weakness. That PHI game at home a couple years ago being a prime example... run the ball, burn clock or PHI timeouts, take the 3, and the game's pretty much over. But they wound up allowing Joe to throw, and had to hang on by their fingertips as the clock ran out. The pass crazy nature of the offense the last couple years doesn't mesh with what the roster would be best at. I'm ready to try something new...

#12 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 112,330 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 04:52 PM

I'd be curious to know their records with second half, two score leads. I feel like I recall Billick had a tremendous won-loss record in that category. Harbaugh I'm not sure, but I definitely feel like it's worse, maybe much worse, with some glaring playoff games lost in that scenario too...


Don't know Harbaugh's record, but Billick did have a tremendous record with 2nd half leads... of course he also had ridiculous defenses, and high quality running games.



#13 birdwatcher55

birdwatcher55

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,402 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 05:04 PM

If you fire Harbaugh, do you can Decosta as well? Who do you go after in either case??

#14 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 112,330 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 05:05 PM

If you fire Harbaugh, do you can Decosta as well? Who do you go after in either case??


Why would firing Harbaugh trigger firing DeCosta?

 

The Ravens aren't parting with Ozzie, with their long-term plan of turning things over to DeCosta... to walk away from that arrangement before DeCosta even officially takes over the job.

 



#15 birdwatcher55

birdwatcher55

    Banned

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,402 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 07:11 PM

Why would firing Harbaugh trigger firing DeCosta?
 
The Ravens aren't parting with Ozzie, with their long-term plan of turning things over to DeCosta... to walk away from that arrangement before DeCosta even officially takes over the job.
 

To answer your question: you might want to clean house from top to bottom considering their record over the past four years and the fact they have not drafted all that well during that time under Decosta/Newsome. I think these are two points that ownership must look at in my opinion.

#16 Biggsy

Biggsy

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,921 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 07:30 PM

To answer your question: you might want to clean house from top to bottom considering their record over the past four years and the fact they have not drafted all that well during that time under Decosta/Newsome. I think these are two points that ownership must look at in my opinion.




Soooooo fire a GM before he ever actually becomes your GM.... Let's see if this move pays off Cotton.

#17 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 112,330 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 07:31 PM

Well I've always been lukewarm on DeCosta so that wouldn't bother me...but dont think there is any chance of that happening.
  • bmore_ken likes this

#18 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,313 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 07:51 PM

I'd look at the decisions independently but I think recently that DeCosta has been more of a partner to Ozzie than a subordinate. If you think a major part of the problem is front office related, then I think you need to strongly consider not handing the reins off to DeCosta fully and going a complete other direction.

I'm not convinced they even fire Harbaugh yet alone DeCosta. Bisciotti loves his continuity. I'd be very surprised to see a front office change.

#19 cprenegade

cprenegade

    Rookie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 707 posts

Posted 11 November 2018 - 10:50 PM

DeCosta is not going anywhere.  The decisions made up to this point were Ozzy Newsome's decisions.  DeCosta had input, but the decisions were all Newsome's.  If the Ravens decide to get rid of Harbuagh it will be because they want to go in a different direction with the coaching staff.  It has nothing to do with a guy who hasn't even started putting his stamp on the product.  They didn't pay DeCosta big money to keep him from going elsewhere only to fire him at this point and totally start over.  That's crazy, the type of thing perennial losers like Cleveland do time and time again. The philosophy of the organization needs to change.  They have invested a lot of draft picks into building a good defense, and mainly a good secondary, when the focus of the rest of the league is on a dynamic offense in response to rule changes.  Look at the top seeds in both conferences.....Rams, Saints, Chiefs, Patriots, Steelers.  They all have explosive offenses and suspect defenses.  The game has changed and the Ravens FO has been way to slow to change with it.  


  • bmore_ken likes this

#20 Dupin

Dupin

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,651 posts

Posted 12 November 2018 - 01:31 AM

https://www.cbssport...-not-discussed/

 

Tremendously good news.  Can't wait to be rid of him.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Partners