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#21 weird-O

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:00 PM

I don't care if Brady stays...assuming he knows his place and the brothers understand that who they bring in are the ones that do what they want and that Brady's input, at the end of the day, is meaningless.  

 

I don't care who they hire or what is said publicly, they don't deserve any level of a benefit of the doubt and while Brady is there, its very fair to believe his voice will carry more weight than it should given his title and those above him.

In Rosenthal's article on Brady, there was a very interesting paragraph where he said that Buck outranked DD. But if there was one person in the org that could get Buck removed, it would be Brady. It's hard to believe that influence will just dissipate with a new hire. 

 

Like Chris, I'm not holding the sons responsible for the sins of the father. But this Brady thing has been an issue, up to and including this year. Until there's clear evidence that the new guy has the final say, I will continued to be suspicious.  


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#22 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:03 PM

In Rosenthal's article on Brady, there was a very interesting paragraph where he said that Buck outranked DD. But if there was one person in the org that could get Buck removed, it would be Brady. It's hard to believe that influence will just dissipate with a new hire. 

 

Like Chris, I'm not holding the sons responsible for the sins of the father. But this Brady thing has been an issue, up to and including this year. Until there's clear evidence that the new guy has the final say, I will continued to be suspicious.  

And the brothers obviously value Brady and his thoughts.

 

BTW, if you want Brady to run things, I am open to it.  I am not saying he is the cancer others think.  However, its also obvious that he carries a large influence in the organization and having someone like that under the "new guys" is something I would be worried about when you consider some of the reported issues in the past.


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#23 JeremyStrain

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:33 PM

Don't get caught up in titles and semantics. If the brothers really are the ones that are behind him being here and having so much say (and I think they are) he will still be here, probably with a different title, but nothing will change. He's here and on payroll because he has the brothers' ear. Whether he's special assistant to the president, or warehouse janitor, it's not going to matter, he's not IN the organizational hierarchy, he is outside of that. I'm pretty sure if he's NOT given one of the big titles it's because of his own choosing and he likes being able to pick and choose his spots. There's something to be said for having authority without all the responsibility that comes with it.

 

I could see a push to bring in a lot of mid 90's former O's and try to bring back that team philosophy that Oates, and later Johnson instilled. Hoiles has coaching experience in the indy leagues near his home in PA. Devereaux has coaching experience in our system. Bordick is being rumored as up for a job (I joked about this one a week before this news started trickling out, but it seems like most coaches are former catchers or middle infielders, and Bordick seemed like he would be on that path eventually. Hell, maybe Ben McDonald gets the call as a pitching coach, if they can't talk Mussina out of coaching basketball. I always wondered why Sutcliffe never got into coaching ;) I've said for years Harold Baines would make a hell of a hitting coach...Eddie Murray, if he could handle dealing with people and the media would be a fountain of knowledg, but he's already signed as a consultant, that's probably all he's willing to give. Hell Frank Robinson didn't deserve the breaks he got in DC. I feel like they may go inexperienced, since they are rebuilding anyway, and maybe try to tie into that mid 90s nostalgia that most of us (ticket buying consumers) have. Just a guess though.


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#24 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:59 PM

Don't get caught up in titles and semantics. If the brothers really are the ones that are behind him being here and having so much say (and I think they are) he will still be here, probably with a different title, but nothing will change. He's here and on payroll because he has the brothers' ear. Whether he's special assistant to the president, or warehouse janitor, it's not going to matter, he's not IN the organizational hierarchy, he is outside of that. I'm pretty sure if he's NOT given one of the big titles it's because of his own choosing and he likes being able to pick and choose his spots. There's something to be said for having authority without all the responsibility that comes with it.

 

Not going to convince me that if a President and EVP external to the organization come on... and they've been instructed to keep Brady in a position of authority... that they haven't:

 

1) Discussed the chain-of-command...
2) The scope of Brady's position...
3) And given their sign-off on it.

 

If new hires come on, and Brady maintains his authority (regardless of title), his position is going to have been agreed to.

That doesn't mean Brady will have no voice.



Regarding the 90s guys... yeah, I'm sure we will see more of them. 

Baines had a beautiful swing... but he belonged to the Walt Hriniak school... seems to go against everything which is currently taught (personally love the approach).



#25 weird-O

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:13 PM

Not going to convince me that if a President and EVP external to the organization come on... and they've been instructed to keep Brady in a position of authority... that they haven't:

 

1) Discussed the chain-of-command...
2) The scope of Brady's position...
3) And given their sign-off on it.

 

If new hires come on, and Brady maintains his authority (regardless of title), his position is going to have been agreed to.

That doesn't mean Brady will have no voice.

Your comments have me circling back to something that was mentioned in another thread. If Brady is going to be here, and have influence that could potentially interfere with the new guys' authority (all 3 eventual hires), then we're back to another situation that ended with DD accepting the GM job.The premium candidates, the top sought after guys, are unlikely to accept the positions. 


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#26 JeremyStrain

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:19 PM

Not going to convince me that if a President and EVP external to the organization come on... and they've been instructed to keep Brady in a position of authority... that they haven't:

 

1) Discussed the chain-of-command...
2) The scope of Brady's position...
3) And given their sign-off on it.

 

If new hires come on, and Brady maintains his authority (regardless of title), his position is going to have been agreed to.

That doesn't mean Brady will have no voice.



Regarding the 90s guys... yeah, I'm sure we will see more of them. 

Baines had a beautiful swing... but he belonged to the Walt Hriniak school... seems to go against everything which is currently taught (personally love the approach).

 

I just don't think Brady has ever really existed IN a chain of command. I think he's got a voice and input, but it's not like he's over this guy or under this guy, or that anyone is going to tell him what to do. I don't see that going away. I also don't think the rumors of his influence are as true as they are made out to be, I think he's around to help out, and he chimes in with opinions and likes to work with players, but I don't think he's trying to overrule anyone on FO decisions. I'd be willing to bet that any involvement he's had as far as "signing players" has gone has been facilitating conversation, or just pushing ownership to sign off on something. I don't think he's out there negotiating deals like some people have speculated, or has forced people to offer contracts or amounts or anything. Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point, but it's always seemed to me that he's been in that consultant kinda role, some training here, happy to hose guys for optional workouts or routines, and I'm sure conversations happen in that regard, but I doubt he's anything formal. If anything I think he's an opinion that the brothers like to hear, and they give it some weight, but he's not out there in meetings doing FO things, that just doesn't seem his personality. I can't see him showing up to the warehouse in anything but a track suit and a tank top and hanging out in the gym.

 

Yeah I mean at some point, you just have to find guys that understand hitting. Especially if you have one that can help guys learn to make more contact or take a walk. How is Edgar Martinez not the best hitting coach in baseball? Harold just seemed like one of those guys to me, and he's got a little history with the team.


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#27 weird-O

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:21 PM

I could see a push to bring in a lot of mid 90's former O's and try to bring back that team philosophy that Oates, and later Johnson instilled. 

Personally, I think this franchise leans too heavily on the nostalgia thing. If those guys want to coach, and are good at it, I would think they'd already have jobs.  


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#28 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:30 PM

I just don't think Brady has ever really existed IN a chain of command. I think he's got a voice and input, but it's not like he's over this guy or under this guy, or that anyone is going to tell him what to do. I don't see that going away. I also don't think the rumors of his influence are as true as they are made out to be, I think he's around to help out, and he chimes in with opinions and likes to work with players, but I don't think he's trying to overrule anyone on FO decisions. I'd be willing to bet that any involvement he's had as far as "signing players" has gone has been facilitating conversation, or just pushing ownership to sign off on something. I don't think he's out there negotiating deals like some people have speculated, or has forced people to offer contracts or amounts or anything. Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point, but it's always seemed to me that he's been in that consultant kinda role, some training here, happy to hose guys for optional workouts or routines, and I'm sure conversations happen in that regard, but I doubt he's anything formal. If anything I think he's an opinion that the brothers like to hear, and they give it some weight, but he's not out there in meetings doing FO things, that just doesn't seem his personality. I can't see him showing up to the warehouse in anything but a track suit and a tank top and hanging out in the gym.

 

Yeah I mean at some point, you just have to find guys that understand hitting. Especially if you have one that can help guys learn to make more contact or take a walk. How is Edgar Martinez not the best hitting coach in baseball? Harold just seemed like one of those guys to me, and he's got a little history with the team.

 

I think he's had a defined position (defined by title, less by structure... freedom to operate as he has pleased).   VP, Assistant GM.   He didn't always have that title, it came about as his influence grew.

Unlike other Asst. GM's he has had training element...

Do think he worked on contracts... but more to the point you made, the suggestion aspect.
Do know he roved the organization as a roving instructor, often to irritation of coaches.
Gave input to Buck and Dan.... gave input to the Brothers.


His influence was real imo, but so was his title.  Which was below Dan.

 

Only point I'm making here is that his influence has been widely reported at this point.

And if John and Lou insist to new leadership that Brady has to stay on, and will have a position of leadership... it should be expected that the new hires will define what that means.

 

 

I'm not saying he won't continue to have influence.
I'm not saying it won't go wrong, if he stays in the org., and John and Lou allow him to supersede the chain of command.

 

 

Definitely something to watch.


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#29 weird-O

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:35 PM

I just don't think Brady has ever really existed IN a chain of command. I think he's got a voice and input, but it's not like he's over this guy or under this guy, or that anyone is going to tell him what to do. I don't see that going away. I also don't think the rumors of his influence are as true as they are made out to be, I think he's around to help out, and he chimes in with opinions and likes to work with players, but I don't think he's trying to overrule anyone on FO decisions. I'd be willing to bet that any involvement he's had as far as "signing players" has gone has been facilitating conversation, or just pushing ownership to sign off on something. I don't think he's out there negotiating deals like some people have speculated, or has forced people to offer contracts or amounts or anything. Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point, but it's always seemed to me that he's been in that consultant kinda role, some training here, happy to hose guys for optional workouts or routines, and I'm sure conversations happen in that regard, but I doubt he's anything formal. If anything I think he's an opinion that the brothers like to hear, and they give it some weight, but he's not out there in meetings doing FO things, that just doesn't seem his personality. I can't see him showing up to the warehouse in anything but a track suit and a tank top and hanging out in the gym.

 

Yeah I mean at some point, you just have to find guys that understand hitting. Especially if you have one that can help guys learn to make more contact or take a walk. How is Edgar Martinez not the best hitting coach in baseball? Harold just seemed like one of those guys to me, and he's got a little history with the team.

Actually, he is. He was an active participant in the Cashner and Cobb negotiations, according to each pitcher. When it comes to his influence, I'm reminded of a line from one of my fav movies, "A rumor's not a rumor that doesn't die". The narrative that Brady holds the authority of the #2 guy below the Angelos family, has persisted. And while it may never be substantiated beyond comments from ex-employees and other MLB execs, it hasn't died. 


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#30 JeremyStrain

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 01:55 PM

Actually, he is. He was an active participant in the Cashner and Cobb negotiations, according to each pitcher. When it comes to his influence, I'm reminded of a line from one of my fav movies, "A rumor's not a rumor that doesn't die". The narrative that Brady holds the authority of the #2 guy below the Angelos family, has persisted. And while it may never be substantiated beyond comments from ex-employees and other MLB execs, it hasn't died. 

 

But see that's kinda my point, yeah we have heard those things, but it's not like someone said Brady took my numbers back to the club and then came back to me with this number. All we got was some he was involved thing. Which if he's doing what I suspect, it's that he's trying to reach out and get guys interested, or giving his opinions on who we should sign.

 

I think it's more of "These are the best two pitchers left out there, we should sign these guys" "Hey would you guys be interested in signing here?" "OK great, here's a meeting, come see the place, and let those guys talk numbers"

 

It's not that I don't think he's involved...it's just not in the way people suspect he is. I think he could have had Dan's job, even in the middle of this season. Or a traditional GM role, and he turned it down. I don't think he wants all the responsibility and not fun side of it. I think he still wants to be a roving guy, he still wants to work with players, he can't do that if he's the GM.


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#31 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:02 PM

Brady seems like a great guy and I appreciate the desire, but he needs to go.

 

Everyone who was here until today needs to go. Everyone.


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#32 weird-O

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:18 PM

But see that's kinda my point, yeah we have heard those things, but it's not like someone said Brady took my numbers back to the club and then came back to me with this number. All we got was some he was involved thing. Which if he's doing what I suspect, it's that he's trying to reach out and get guys interested, or giving his opinions on who we should sign.

 

I think it's more of "These are the best two pitchers left out there, we should sign these guys" "Hey would you guys be interested in signing here?" "OK great, here's a meeting, come see the place, and let those guys talk numbers"

 

It's not that I don't think he's involved...it's just not in the way people suspect he is. I think he could have had Dan's job, even in the middle of this season. Or a traditional GM role, and he turned it down. I don't think he wants all the responsibility and not fun side of it. I think he still wants to be a roving guy, he still wants to work with players, he can't do that if he's the GM.

You're spot on with this. I think he actually said this very thing in the article. He wants to be among the players. But he also said he wants a Prez position. I don't see how he can have both. And while I don't want to automatically dismiss that type of dual role, just because it's unheard of, it does cross over a line that has traditionally been considered a taboo for execs. They don't have that kind of interaction with the players. I'm not sure why that is, I assume it's because execs need to make personnel decisions. And like most important decisions, they're usually best made without emotion influencing things. If Brady is buddies with player X, and player X needs to be benched, sent down, DFA'd, etc. a personal relationship will probably blur his vision.  


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#33 JeremyStrain

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:28 PM

You're spot on with this. I think he actually said this very thing in the article. He wants to be among the players. But he also said he wants a Prez position. I don't see how he can have both. And while I don't want to automatically dismiss that type of dual role, just because it's unheard of, it does cross over a line that has traditionally been considered a taboo for execs. They don't have that kind of interaction with the players. I'm not sure why that is, I assume it's because execs need to make personnel decisions. And like most important decisions, they're usually best made without emotion influencing things. If Brady is buddies with player X, and player X needs to be benched, sent down, DFA'd, etc. a personal relationship will probably blur his vision.  

 

Does he want a pres position? Really asking.

 

I know that he said he didn't want the GM job, but I thought he had been asked about President or something, not straight GM and that's what he said no to. (It was basically asking if he was going to take over for Dan). Details are all fuzzy for me, I just remember that he had said no he didn't want that, and I assumed it was because of what you said, he likes being buddies with the players. He still sees himself as one, so he can't be in that position to be a "suit".

 

If you think it's a good thing that players have a voice and a line to ownership, then I think what he does is a good thing. If you think it undermines GM/Presidents/Coaches then it's a bad thing. I dunno, we've had so long with a dysfunctional organization around here I don't know what the right answer is.


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#34 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 02:39 PM

Does he want a pres position? Really asking.

 

I know that he said he didn't want the GM job, but I thought he had been asked about President or something, not straight GM and that's what he said no to. (It was basically asking if he was going to take over for Dan). Details are all fuzzy for me, I just remember that he had said no he didn't want that, and I assumed it was because of what you said, he likes being buddies with the players. He still sees himself as one, so he can't be in that position to be a "suit".

 

If you think it's a good thing that players have a voice and a line to ownership, then I think what he does is a good thing. If you think it undermines GM/Presidents/Coaches then it's a bad thing. I dunno, we've had so long with a dysfunctional organization around here I don't know what the right answer is.


He said he aspires to be a Team President one day.


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#35 Mike B

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:40 PM

I really don't think we will ever know what the Brady role was.  I do think he was used as a recruiter, in part because there was not a lot of personality in place with the EVP.  I also, think we have been under staffed for years in regards to organizational staff, scouts etc, so Brady became the Swiss Army knife.  

I don't want Brady as a high ranking front office guy, I just suspect his role and influence has been over played.


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#36 Mike B

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:50 PM

Roch was on again in the afternoon.  Said much the same.   He said a couple of times that he had to be careful not to put a name out there, because he did not want to be the reason a person did not get a job.  He feels they are close, and repeated, that there would be two hires, but was not sure the titles.

I think he knows the names, but when you work for the team controlled media, he is not going to put anything out there.


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#37 birdwatcher55

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 12:08 PM

Colletti and Rice?

#38 bmore_ken

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 02:05 PM

Like Chris, I'm not holding the sons responsible for the sins of the father. But this Brady thing has been an issue, up to and including this year. Until there's clear evidence that the new guy has the final say, I will continued to be suspicious.  

Brady needs to be gone. As long as he's there, there will be confusion. 


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#39 weird-O

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 07:10 AM

I really don't think we will ever know what the Brady role was.  I do think he was used as a recruiter, in part because there was not a lot of personality in place with the EVP.  I also, think we have been under staffed for years in regards to organizational staff, scouts etc, so Brady became the Swiss Army knife.  

I don't want Brady as a high ranking front office guy, I just suspect his role and influence has been over played.

Interesting perspective, I hadn't thought of it in that way.


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#40 Ravens2006

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:02 PM

Why we pay much attention to what Roch floats out there is beyond me. Basically he's a PR employee for the Orioles at this point. I've gotten to the point where I change the station when he comes on 105.7 anymore. I just can't listen to him float "something is happening soon" rumors, "the Orioles are happy with whatever" tidbits, and "well they made a real offer for whoever" alibis.




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