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BSL: How Will The O's Build Their FO?


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 10:17 AM

BSL: How Will The O's Build Their FO?

https://www.baltimor...d-front-office/


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#2 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 03:00 PM

Poorly
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#3 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 03:45 PM

Poorly

Likely so. 



#4 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:01 AM

Here is what bothers me.  One thing I feel confident in saying is that this will not be a forward thinking organization.

 

Using "openers" or whatever you want to call them won't happen.  We won't be an organization that does abnormal things to try and figure out where we can have a competitive advantage.  It will just be the same old bs.  Not enough analytics, retreads, etc...


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#5 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 09:51 AM

Should be with guys who understand things like this:

 

https://www.mlb.com/...ers/c-297698084


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#6 birdwatcher55

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:05 PM

I'm betting they build it well. John seems quite progressive.

#7 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:08 PM

I am going to give the sons the benefit of the doubt. Am I optimistic? Not much but I am not totally pessimistic either. Lets give them a shot to see if they can fix a long time pattern of FO ineptness.



#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:29 PM

I am going to give the sons the benefit of the doubt. Am I optimistic? Not much but I am not totally pessimistic either. Lets give them a shot to see if they can fix a long time pattern of FO ineptness.

They lost it with the Zoellner trade.


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#9 Mackus

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 12:55 PM

They lost it with the Zoellner trade.

They lost it before that for me. Insisting on salary dumps rather than paying the remaining freight on the guy we traded was far more damaging to the future than the stupidity of throwing away $750k in intl bonus space.

I think every sign we've seen fron the younger Angelos' points to more of the same. I think if Peter were 20 years younger, July through today would have gone exactly the same as it actually has.

Who they hire won't really change things for me. Over time, what they show they are willing to let the new brass do will be the next useful piece of diagnostics when it comes to grading the sons as owners.

#10 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 01:58 PM

Roch suggested yesterday the trade with Philly was the result of something larger..like an owed favor.

#11 Mackus

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:28 PM

I don't care. That's not a real thing. You don't give away your international bonus for nothing while you are claiming you are going to finally get involved in that market. If they don't want to wear the blame for that stupidity then be up front about whatever shady under the table "we owe you one" deal they have going on. It's on them 100%.
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#12 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:43 PM

I don't care. That's not a real thing. You don't give away your international bonus for nothing while you are claiming you are going to finally get involved in that market. If they don't want to wear the blame for that stupidity then be up front about whatever shady under the table "we owe you one" deal they have going on. It's on them 100%.

Yep.

 

There is no such thing as "i owe you, so im going to be a moron".

 

Not sure who actually buys that theory but its a dumb theory.  

 

Deals fall apart all the time.

 

Does this mean that whoever the agent for Balfour is, that we will sign one of his players for way more than they are worth because we "owe him something?"


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#13 JTrea81

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 02:57 PM

Roch suggested yesterday the trade with Philly was the result of something larger..like an owed favor.

 

AKA the Jones deal blowing up.

 

Or on the positive side, perhaps it's to be able to interview and rehire Ned Rice...



#14 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:22 PM

I don't care. That's not a real thing. You don't give away your international bonus for nothing while you are claiming you are going to finally get involved in that market. If they don't want to wear the blame for that stupidity then be up front about whatever shady under the table "we owe you one" deal they have going on. It's on them 100%.


He (Roch) said he felt there was additional story there that will come out...but yes, I have to agree with you regardless.

#15 dude

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:09 PM

I wasn’t shocked by Duquette’s departure, but I was surprised.

 

[whole text]

 

Whatever, I  digress.

 

I wanted to comment on this since you wrote it.  We discussed it a lot at the time and it's part of several other discussions.

 

It only doesn't make sense if they are running things in a 'up-front' approach.

 

You tell me 'there is no shadow government' ...but what happens makes sense if the people running things behind the scenes are actually the ones running things.

 

Dan was the public face of the Organization.  Nobody else is stepping forward to deliver that message because it's perceived as 'his' (by title) responsibility.  He was being handed the script.  He delivered it.  It's that simple.

 

There was a community of people (where's Crousman?) that believed Dan "sold the baby bros on his detailed rebuilding plan".  It's not that Dan doesn't know what to do or in many ways, how to do it better, he's just not the guy pulling the strings and he hasn't been since the disloyalty of the Toronto debacle.  He decided he was ok being a messenger because it's better to be that for $3.5M than anything else for $0.

 

Why should we believe that any new hires in Baseball Operations are going to have the autonomy to do the things necessary to win ever (now or later).

 

"Rebuilding" gives them a 4 year window without accountability for the win column.  That's 'the Plan'.



#16 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:25 PM

I wanted to comment on this since you wrote it.  We discussed it a lot at the time and it's part of several other discussions.

 

It only doesn't make sense if they are running things in a 'up-front' approach.

 

You tell me 'there is no shadow government' ...but what happens makes sense if the people running things behind the scenes are actually the ones running things.

 

Dan was the public face of the Organization.  Nobody else is stepping forward to deliver that message because it's perceived as 'his' (by title) responsibility.  He was being handed the script.  He delivered it.  It's that simple.

 

There was a community of people (where's Crousman?) that believed Dan "sold the baby bros on his detailed rebuilding plan".  It's not that Dan doesn't know what to do or in many ways, how to do it better, he's just not the guy pulling the strings and he hasn't been since the disloyalty of the Toronto debacle.  He decided he was ok being a messenger because it's better to be that for $3.5M than anything else for $0.

 

Why should we believe that any new hires in Baseball Operations are going to have the autonomy to do the things necessary to win ever (now or later).

 

"Rebuilding" gives them a 4 year window without accountability for the win column.  That's 'the Plan'.

 

Ehh, I don't think they decided Duquette wasn't coming back until later.

That's more plausible than the conspiracy theory mentality.

 

 

The whole line you regularly use about rebuilding being a way to avoid accountability is just grating to me.

(I'm not asking you to stop saying it. Make any point you'd like.)

I'm just saying I don't buy it.

There are things you have to be accountable for even if immediate wins and losses aren't one of those.



#17 Mike B

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:35 PM

AKA the Jones deal blowing up.

 

Or on the positive side, perhaps it's to be able to interview and rehire Ned Rice...

I heard the interview, and if it was the reason, it is even dumber.  Trades fall through all the time.  Unless we misrepresented the whole thing to the Phillies, there was no reason to give the Phillies 750 K, for a guy who the Phillies were getting ready to release.


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#18 Mackus

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:48 AM

The $750k to Philly would make me even madder if part of the move is for something ridiculous such as owing them one. Honestly, I've wanted to fire everyone for a long time, this just reinforces that. We are so fucked. Doesn't matter who they hire. It'll be another 15 years before we get lucky and hit on enough guys simultaneously to get to the playoffs.

#19 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:58 AM

The $750k to Philly would make me even madder if part of the move is for something ridiculous such as owing them one. Honestly, I've wanted to fire everyone for a long time, this just reinforces that. We are so fucked. Doesn't matter who they hire. It'll be another 15 years before we get lucky and hit on enough guys simultaneously to get to the playoffs.


I'll lean that way if I feel they botch the hires.

If they get the hires right, I'll have some optimism.

Either way I dont think lightning has to strike twice for things to come together over 3-4 years.

Buck and DD (and Andy) weren't perfect, but they were able to have a competitive team built for 5 years. They certainly didn't have optimal ownership conditions around them.


Get these hires right.
Get some improvement from Ownership.

Something good can be built again.


Screw up the hires, and a tough job becomes much harder.

#20 Mackus

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:05 AM

The hires don't matter that much, at least not yet. They could... but that's the second logic gate. If the first logic gate is closed, then the second doesn't matter.

If they make a bad hire, that'd be disappointing. But even if they hire great people, it's meaningless if they don't change their stripes as owners. Nobody can overcome the Angelos influence as its been to date.




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