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President Of Baseball Operations


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#21 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:10 PM

Hart & Melvin worked here so long ago. Would be cool to see either come back. Talk abut full circle.

 

 

Hart would be my first choice. 


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#22 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:15 PM

Hart & Melvin worked here so long ago. Would be cool to see either come back. Talk abut full circle.

 

 

Hart would be my first choice. 


I'd be fine with Hart as President.

I'd also be fine with him being the one to decide who to pursue at EVP.



#23 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:20 PM


I'd be fine with Hart as President.

I'd also be fine with him being the one to decide who to pursue at EVP.

Agreed on both. He knows what he's doing, and the way the Braves tenure ended aside, he built them up pretty damn quick. 

 

we don't have any Craig Kimbrel's, Justin Upton's, Andrelton Simmons', Evan Gattis, or Brian McCann's to trade though right now.

 

But still. 


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#24 Mike B

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:53 PM

Dan Duquette would have been perfect for this role which is why it was a little surprising he wasn't promoted IMO.

I'd add Jon Daniels to the list of consideration. Would be fitting for him to come in after Showalter was gone to clean up another mess.

I have stayed away from the DD discussion since they announced he wasn't coming back.  I don't believe in bashing a guy after he was let go.    But promotion??    I give you credit, you never give up.


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#25 Mike B

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:03 PM

As for a President....I think Melvin and Hart are the type they go after, and I would be fine with either, with a lean toward Hart.   I hope no Colletti, so yea, that is what they will do.


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#26 birdwatcher55

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:20 PM

Isn't Hart on MLB 's **** list? I want and continue to advocate for Cherington. He wants a total rebuild project from the ground up. I'd say we check off all the boxes.

#27 mdrunning

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 03:19 PM

Cherington's name came up on The Fan this afternoon. What's interesting is he recently withdrew his name from consideration for the Mets' job because he "wanted to be able to build an organization from the ground up."

 

What's encouraging is the sons' proclaiming that they want to hire someone to take over the entire operation, and then get out of their way. If they're true to their word, that's promising because that's the only way you're going to get the person you want.



#28 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 03:41 PM

Nick
1:15
Who are some names I should I be excited to hear for the Mets GM search? Who are some names I should roll my eyes at that they’ll likely end up with?
 
Keith Law
1:15
The Mets need to hire someone who is comfortable with analytics. That can be someone of just about any age. It would not be, say, Ned Colletti. (Rinse and repeat for Baltimore.)

Duquette is certainly comfortable with analytics. I'm sure he's not as cutting edge as some of the younger talent out there though. I'm guessing Law's context is more broad. But yeah, if it's just going to be a Coletti type retread we might as well just have retained Duquette imo. 



#29 dude

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:26 PM

Would be cool to hear if the O's do plan on hiring a President.

 

Hiring a President of Baseball Operations is no different than what they have.

 

It's still just the highest title in Baseball Operations.  The highest title in Baseball Operations has baseball Operations.

 

That's different than a Team President.

 

What Mackus is describing in post #11 is a Team President.

 

A President coordinates (vision, execution, accountability) the Organization....not just Baseball Operations but everything.

 

-------------

Granted, there's a lot of (I guess) non-traditional structures now across baseball.  Nearly every team is set up slightly differently.

 

The Indians have 2 Presidents ...Baseball Operations and Business.  (The Business lead is a HS friend of mine)

So the Chairman and Vice Chair have to act as the coordination between the operations unless they just handle it.

 

The Cubs have Theo set up as President of Baseball Ops but don't really have other senior titles and the other entities (not baseball ops) seem organized under (maybe) the CFO?

 

I'd like to go with what feels like a more traditional structure (see Mariners)...where you have a President and all of the other operations activities are subordinate to him.

 

--------

 

...but the point remains, hiring a title of President of Baseball Operations is no different than what they've been doing in Orioleland unless you're reorganizing the other pieces of the organization under Baseball Ops. 



#30 dude

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:35 PM

What's encouraging is the sons' proclaiming that they want to hire someone to take over the entire operation, and then get out of their way. If they're true to their word, that's promising because that's the only way you're going to get the person you want.

 

The Orioles have been one of the most, if not the most, dysfunctional organizations for decades, not just in Baseball, but in Professional sports.

 

John Angelos has held his current title since 1999.  John and Lou have been Peter's closest confidants and heavily involved in the way the Orioles have operated since their father purchased the Team.  They have specifically organized in a way that pushed responsibility to their level.  They've had the most success (2012-2014) when then John's role was diminished in the Organization.  Post Toronto debacle, it seems clear they've worked to regain some of that control and the results, including Brady's emergence, has produced increasingly worse results culminating the worst season in Orioles history.

 

Show me any accountability for the way they've run this franchise.  In fact, if you were serious about making real change (go watch Uber or Wells Fargo commercials) they've done nothing but make excuses to justify why they haven't done something and they will in the future (the whole, transition the investment from the ML roster to the development side....total BS)

 

Go watch John Angleos' response in 2017 about inviting Trump to throw out the first pitch and tell me that's someone that has the maturity and character to take himself out of the story.

 

They'll say what they have to say because if they don't say those things...who in the world, that has other real options, would take the position.

 

If you wanted to run the Organization well, there's been plenty of opportunity to make change whenever or however they wanted. 

Peter is their dad. 

They are part of the very small inner circle and likely the most influential people in the organization.

They have spent the last 6-7 months trying to prop up their credibility as Executives for the Orioles, including sending Brady out as their Standard Bearer.

 

Color me "I'll believe it when I see it"....because there's things they could have already done to show changes and they haven't done it.

 

...but hey, they don't need my approval for anything.



#31 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:20 PM

Hiring a President of Baseball Operations is no different than what they have.

 

That's just an odd take.


They've never hired a President of Baseball Ops before.

 

If they hire one now - and Roch says they are - that is different.

 

If you have a President of Baseball Ops, and a EVP of Baseball Ops / GM (replacing Duquette); that isn't the same thing.



#32 Mike B

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:38 PM

Isn't Hart on MLB 's **** list? I want and continue to advocate for Cherington. He wants a total rebuild project from the ground up. I'd say we check off all the boxes.

The Orioles are on MLB's s###  so the perfect connection.

 

BTW, screw MLB


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#33 JTrea81

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:43 PM

That's just an odd take.


They've never hired a President of Baseball Ops before.

 

If they hire one now - and Roch says they are - that is different.

 

If you have a President of Baseball Ops, and a EVP of Baseball Ops / GM (replacing Duquette); that isn't the same thing.

 

Andy MacPhail was President of Baseball Operations while Flanagan served as Executive VP while that structure was intact.  After Flanagan and Jim Duquette left, MacPhail retained the title.

 

At the time the title was to bring somebody in above without ousting Flanagan and Duquette from their then current titles even though their duties dramatically changed.

 

I remember the Flanagan "coffee order " jokes were quite prevalent.

 

After MacPhail left, the Executive VP role came back with Dan Duquette's hiring.


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#34 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 08:03 PM

Andy MacPhail was President of Baseball Operations while Flanagan served as Executive VP while that structure was intact. After Flanagan and Jim Duquette left, MacPhail retained the title.

At the time the title was to bring somebody in above without ousting Flanagan and Duquette from their then current titles even though their duties dramatically changed.

I remember the Flanagan "coffee order " jokes were quite prevalent.

After MacPhail left, the Executive VP role came back with Dan Duquette's hiring.


Ahh good call, had forgot that.

#35 dude

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 10:43 PM

That's just an odd take.

They've never hired a President of Baseball Ops before.

 

If they hire one now - and Roch says they are - that is different.

 

If you have a President of Baseball Ops, and a EVP of Baseball Ops / GM (replacing Duquette); that isn't the same thing.

 

I guess I don't understand what you think having the senior Baseball Operations position titled President or Executive Vice President actually means.

 

If someone wants to challenge the fact they haven't had a "President" in the past and now there's someone with that title so now they do...whatever...

 

The scope of Baseball Operations doesn't change because you title the lead a President versus a Vice President.

It would have no impact on Brady's approach.  He didn't have the senior title and did whatever he wanted and he's the most significant influence that still has a job.



#36 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:34 AM

I guess I don't understand what you think having the senior Baseball Operations position titled President or Executive Vice President actually means.

If someone wants to challenge the fact they haven't had a "President" in the past and now there's someone with that title so now they do...whatever...

The scope of Baseball Operations doesn't change because you title the lead a President versus a Vice President.
It would have no impact on Brady's approach. He didn't have the senior title and did whatever he wanted and he's the most significant influence that still has a job.


Yes, if you have an operating President...and you have an operating EVP / GM underneath that President...that's a significant change.

We will see what happens with Brady, if there are two hires above him.

#37 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:38 AM

I believe what Chris is saying that the President is now a “buffer” between GM (or whatever title you want to give) and the owner.

In the past, it’s basically gone ownership than GM/EVP/piss boy.

Now, there is another voice and seemingly that voice has the final say in everything.

The rangers had ownership then Nolan Ryan then Daniels. That’s how this will be set up it sounds like.

Now, whether that actually changes anything (like dude is alluding to) is the question. My guess is that it won’t and Brady will have more influence than he should considering he will have 2 people ahead of him.
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#38 dude

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:37 AM

Yes, if you have an operating President...and you have an operating EVP / GM underneath that President...that's a significant change.

We will see what happens with Brady, if there are two hires above him.

 

For the first part...I think you're making a different argument.  Do with think the challenges (dysfunction) of this organization are centered around not enough manpower (whatever) to effectively manage Baseball Operations?  Is the job of external management of baseball ops (ie staying up with teams) conflicting (time) with the job of running internal baseball ops (roster, coord pro/am scouting, analytics, player development, international)?

 

Could an experienced voice be valuable for Baseball Ops coordination? Sure..maybe...but that's not why this is the most dysfunctional organization in professional sports.

 

Re Brady.  I have no idea why you think that would matter.  He's already in the inner circle with John and Lou.  He's running his playbook for them.  Whatever they hire he's already above the position.  



#39 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:53 AM

If the Orioles hire John Hart at President and someone else at EVP / GM; its ridiculous to think those two hires are going to join the organization without clear understanding of Bradys role and power going forward (if they are being told Brady will have to be retained). And if they join the organization, and Brady remains...they've signed off on that.
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#40 BSLRobShields

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 10:28 AM

If the Orioles hire John Hart at President and someone else at EVP / GM; its ridiculous to think those two hires are going to join the organization without clear understanding of Bradys role and power going forward (if they are being told Brady will have to be retained). And if they join the organization, and Brady remains...they've signed off on that.


Do you think it’s ridiculous to think that this family would tell people one thing but end up having their actions be different?
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