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#101 DJ MC

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 01:42 PM

Davis has been low character since 2014 drug bust. And yeah we started to lose when these guys became unproductive in 2017 and 2018.

Drug bust?

Why should you be taken seriously with that kind of statement?
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#102 Mackus

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 01:47 PM

LOL. How many playoff games did we win with Davis, Trumbo, and MannyLOL!!!!! You have to go clean back to 2012!! Regular season wins are nice, but they don't mean jack shit in the big picture And 2012 was only Davis.

Manny was on the team in 2012.

We won 6 playoff games with this group. Appeared in 3 different playoff series.

Obviously you can win with these guys. Saying otherwise is just flat out wrong. Make whatever criticisms of each guy you want, but to say we can't win with them is asinine. We very much won not only with them but because of them.

#103 Crouseman

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 02:34 PM

Manny was on the team in 2012.

We won 6 playoff games with this group. Appeared in 3 different playoff series.

Obviously you can win with these guys. Saying otherwise is just flat out wrong. Make whatever criticisms of each guy you want, but to say we can't win with them is asinine. We very much won not only with them but because of them.

My statement was specific to the 2017/2018 seasons and to Russell.  You can't win with guys like Davis, Trumbo and Russell as it stands today.  That is what I was trying to convey.  The days of bringing in over rated  and under productive vets like Russell are over.  And nobody wants our garbage either like Davis and Trumbo.  Both untradeable and that speaks volumes of the kind of players we need to move away from.  No way Elias goes for it.



#104 Crouseman

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 02:37 PM

Drug bust?

Why should you be taken seriously with that kind of statement?

He was busted for banned drugs and suspended.  Not accepting that, you can't be taken seriously.



#105 Mackus

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 02:40 PM


My statement was specific to the 2017/2018 seasons and to Russell. You can't win with guys like Davis, Trumbo and Russell as it stands today. That is what I was trying to convey. The days of bringing in over rated and under productive vets like Russell are over.


Their character hasn't changed the past 2 years. You can win with these guys, as the previous 5 years proved. You just need them to play well. If they play well, you win. If they dont, you don't.

#106 russsnyder

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 02:46 PM

Russell has skills. The abuse is why I want no part of him. Without that, he'd be a reasonable target. With that, no thanks.


I read more about the abuse allegations.

I hope the Orioles don't pursue this guy.

#107 Crouseman

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 02:55 PM

Their character hasn't changed the past 2 years. You can win with these guys, as the previous 5 years proved. You just need them to play well. If they play well, you win. If they dont, you don't.

You can't win with Davis and Trumbo period.  I don't care if it was last year or 5 years ago.  We won one playoff WC with Davis.  Big whoop.  Winning is relative.  I'm talking play off series, pennants and WS.  These guys didn't ever get it done.  Regular season wins Ok but big whoop.  Can't and never did win with Chris Davis being a big part of anything..  



#108 Mackus

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 03:00 PM

Can you win postseason games with Mike Trout? Because according to your logic...

#109 Crouseman

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 03:05 PM

Can you win postseason games with Mike Trout? Because according to your logic...

Here is the difference.  You put Trout on another team he could win.  Put Davis on another team and they are worse.  Look at his 2014 when we went to the ALCS.  Complete anchor and we won without him.  Bottom line we don't want players like Russell.  And if we could get rid of Davis we would be a better team.    I'm not comparing Russell and Davis in character,  Davis has faults but he is OK.  Its their over rated under performance that is similar.



#110 Mackus

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 03:08 PM

So if you put '13 or '15 Davis on another team they are worse? I think it's folly to look at the playoff seasons and say those weren't the best years by Davis (or Machado or anybody else) and leap to say that those players don't help you win. It's terrible logic, IMO.

You obviously can win with people like Chris Davis. He has been a great player in the past. He is not that anymore, and maybe not even an MLB player. Good players help you. Chris has been that. Now he isnt, so he hurts you.

#111 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 03:38 PM

My head hurts
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#112 JTrea81

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 06:55 PM

  
Recently?

 

Well my son is 5 and mashes the keyboard instead of typing words, so I'm pretty sure it's not him...

 

Crouseman, thanks for the kind words...


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#113 BSLRobShields

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 08:14 PM

My head hurts


Does anyone have that banging your head against the brick wall gif?
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#114 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 09:54 PM

If we were closer to a competitive window I think Russell would make some sense. Missing the first 29 games he's not even a trade chip at the deadline. By the end of the year he's starting to get further down the arb path. The personal stuff isn't a disqualifier for me, but it all has to be taken into account. There may be more than the public stuff. Hard to say. If the cost was a virtual giveaway, I then yeah, I think I'd be in. 


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#115 Mike B

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 11:37 PM

I said last two years.  They suck now just like Russell sucks.  We had a lot of guys suck the last two years that we had won with.  That's the point of knowing when to pull the plug which DD and Buck blew .

 

Davis has been low character since 2014 drug bust.  And yeah we started to lose when these guys became unproductive in 2017 and 2018.

I really try to limit my post on Davis, because it is the same comments and posters kicking the crap out of a man who is down.  I get he is an awful player right now, but the term drug bust, insinuates police involvement.  That to me is not fair.  Chris is lost right now, on the field and in his preparation.  I know for a fact, there are kid charities in town that are a lot better funded because of Chris and his wife Jill.

Is he a bad ball player right now, yes, but IMO, not fair to compare him to someone who may be slugging his wife.


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#116 russsnyder

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 05:26 AM

If we were closer to a competitive window I think Russell would make some sense. Missing the first 29 games he's not even a trade chip at the deadline. By the end of the year he's starting to get further down the arb path. The personal stuff isn't a disqualifier for me, but it all has to be taken int account. There may be more than the public stuff. hard to say. If the cost was a virtual giveaway, I think I might be in.

Excellent point about the suspension affecting his trade value at the 2019 deadline. His value will also be affected by the threat of a longer suspension or league ban for future incidents. I think the Orioles can find someone who can make plays at short without being the distraction that Russell will be going forward.

#117 Crouseman

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 10:32 AM

I really try to limit my post on Davis, because it is the same comments and posters kicking the crap out of a man who is down.  I get he is an awful player right now, but the term drug bust, insinuates police involvement.  That to me is not fair.  Chris is lost right now, on the field and in his preparation.  I know for a fact, there are kid charities in town that are a lot better funded because of Chris and his wife Jill.

Is he a bad ball player right now, yes, but IMO, not fair to compare him to someone who may be slugging his wife.

See post 109.  No one is comparing Davis and Russell character wise.  Its their current performance going forward that is being called into question on whether you can rebuild and win with these type of players.  I say no.  Not to mention Russell has baggage the size of Texas.  Davis has his on field issues with the drug suspension and the lack of transparency on his work in the off season,  but it no way compares to Russell's domestic abuse problem.

In fairness to Russell ,  his stats look a little better than I thought especially with the glove.  Still a high K, low OBP guy.  Which has been the death knell for this club the last couple years.  Again that was my original point.  It has been proven the last 2 years that a lineup packed with high K, low OBP with declining power numbers is a recipe for big losing.



#118 Mike B

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 01:58 PM

See post 109.  No one is comparing Davis and Russell character wise.  Its their current performance going forward that is being called into question on whether you can rebuild and win with these type of players.  I say no.  Not to mention Russell has baggage the size of Texas.  Davis has his on field issues with the drug suspension and the lack of transparency on his work in the off season,  but it no way compares to Russell's domestic abuse problem.

In fairness to Russell ,  his stats look a little better than I thought especially with the glove.  Still a high K, low OBP guy.  Which has been the death knell for this club the last couple years.  Again that was my original point.  It has been proven the last 2 years that a lineup packed with high K, low OBP with declining power numbers is a recipe for big losing.

I just didn't think the term "drug bust", is a fair characterization.   In my mind at least, the term has a much uglier meaning than Davis getting suspended for adderall or what ever he was using.  Chris is a bad player right now, doesn't make him a low character guy IMO.


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#119 BSLRobShields

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:15 PM

I just didn't think the term "drug bust", is a fair characterization.   In my mind at least, the term has a much uglier meaning than Davis getting suspended for adderall or what ever he was using.  Chris is a bad player right now, doesn't make him a low character guy IMO.

Dont let facts get in the way of a good mob mentality!


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#120 Crouseman

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 05:11 PM

I just didn't think the term "drug bust", is a fair characterization.   In my mind at least, the term has a much uglier meaning than Davis getting suspended for adderall or what ever he was using.  Chris is a bad player right now, doesn't make him a low character guy IMO.

 

 

We'll agree to disagree. I think both Davis and Manny both have baseball related character issues.  Its all subjective on what constitutes "low character"  and I'll walk that back on both of them and just say "character issues".   Russell I'll stick with low character.  Also, agree I should of said drug suspension, not drug bust.  It just seemed like semantics, but I get it. Big literal difference.






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